SCHOOL MEALS TO BE STOPPED

[Mary G]

I've always thought a society should be judged on how it treats its children and its elderly. Its not looking too good from where I'm sitting.

Completely agree Malky. How did the meeting go on Wednesday, in Glenbarr?

[Malky]

We had a parents evening in the Grammar School on wednesday so didn't make it to the meeting in Glenbarr. There is a public meeting this wednesday (4th) in Tayinloan Hall though, so we'll see how that goes.

Malky

[John S]

First off can I point out that I am not a councillor for ward 2, as previously stated on this thread, I am a ward 1 councillor. However I do hold an interest in the retention of meals in these schools. As a former pupil of Glenbarr I appreciate the community bonding aspects of local rural schools. There were about 50 kids in Glenbarr when I attended, about 8 tables in the dining hall and the formality of dinners then is something that is so vivid it brings a smile to my face every time I think about it.

There is a bigger picture here which is much more than school meals but the survival of these schools at all. As you will be aware a review of the school estate is underway within the council with a view to improving the learning environment and restructuring the school estate to give better value.

While this review is ongoing and I would not want to set any hares running about the final outcome, but it should be clear to anyone that the closure of schools and merger within bigger units is inevitable. This is not necessarily a bad thing if indeed it improves the educational and organisational circumstances for the families involved, but for our rural communities this is unlikely to be the case.

I have consistently argued throughout this process that rural schools which are well below capacity should be a selling point for Argyll & Bute. Where else will you get the standard of education, safety, environment, quality of life which can be offered to children. We should be marketing every desk to parents out with Argyll & Bute who have the kind of lifestyles and employment circumstances which allow them to consider moving for the right educational environment for their families.

Unfortunately I fear that, unless there is a significant change in the viewpoint across the political spectrum of the council, some communities will be disadvantaged by this review process with children having to travel to upwards of 10 - 15 miles to their primary schools.

The knock on effect of this on our villages will be to reinforce their status as retirement homes. What families would move into such circumstances?

I will not be able to attend the meeting on Wed. I have 2 other meetings in Campbeltown on that evening which are relevant to my ward work in South Kintyre however I feel that parents need to be aware of the bigger picture. Anne Horn, Rory Colville and myself have spoken out consistently at the school estate seminars against the threat of closure for high cost rural schools, the immortal words "over my dead body” were ever uttered, (not by me I hasten to add) However I would suggest that we are in the minority in the council.

The policy of the Scottish Government is to presume against the closure of rural schools. I would urge you to see the removal of meals as a warning and make sure that, if you value your schools, you organise to look after them.

[Mary G]

Thanks John S

This is helpful.

I would urge you to see the removal of meals as a warning and make sure that, if you value your schools, you organise to look after them.

I agree too about the 'unused capacity' argument. Disappointing that you are finding resistance - or at least that you seem to be finding too few who can see these schools as community assets, and 'magnets', so to speak.

Given what you say it will be up to parents and communities - not officials or councillors - to reverse this ridiculous decision. More power to them, I say. Legally, there must be a very strong case. Is there anywhere else in Scotlant that has stopped school meals? Not to my knowledge.

[muasdalemouse]

Councillor Semple, my apologies for inadvertantly stating your incorrect ward, but could you clarify?

Did you vote for the retention of school meals when the 2009-10 budget meeting was held? The information I have from the meeting at Glenbarr Primary is that Concillor McAlpine stated that the council voted Unanimously to remove the school meals service.

Could you also clarify your statement regarding parents taking the required action to retain the school meals service? Are you suggesting that the parents should dip into their own pockets to subsidise their childrens school meals, in order to keep the service going, bearing in mind most of these parents already pay council tax and contribute to their childrens school meals?

Finally, are you proposing that A&B Council should build a custom built rural school to serve a larger community, for example the three schools at Skipness, Glenbarr and Rhunohairine, on a site accessable to all three areas?

It perpelxes me that the SNP elected councillors are voting against their own parties policies prior to the proposed legislation becoming active and contridictiory to the wishes of their constituants who clearly don't want their schools to close, or for that matter to have the school meals service removed.

Unfortunately I fear that, unless there is a significant change in the viewpoint across the political spectrum of the council, some communities will be disadvantaged by this review process with children having to travel to upwards of 10 - 15 miles to their primary schools.

Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but weren't you and the rest of the concillors voted for by the public to represent thier views, opinions and interests, and not to act in the best interests of the local government and their financial budget?

[Beachcomber]

Councillor Semple, my apologies for inadvertantly stating your incorrect ward, but could you clarify?

Did you vote for the retention of school meals when the 2009-10 budget meeting was held? The information I have from the meeting at Glenbarr Primary is that Concillor McAlpine stated that the council voted Unanimously to remove the school meals service.

One would hope that the minutes of that meeting are already available via the Council's own website or would be made available in response to a Freedom of Information Act request...

[NelsonL1995]

Noticed there are bits of paper in shop windows titled - SAVE OUR SCHOOL DINNERS
Seems like they are looking for people to sign it to give back to the council.
Any spare time you have I supose you could sign it.

[John S]

Councillor Semple, my apologies for inadvertantly stating your incorrect ward, but could you clarify?


Did you vote for the retention of school meals when the 2009-10 budget meeting was held? The information I have from the meeting at Glenbarr Primary is that Concillor McAlpine stated that the council voted Unanimously to remove the school meals service.

Indeed the council did, and also reversed a significant number of cuts proposed by officials in the process,

http://www.argyll-bute.gov.uk/content/n ... al/3266734

this all takes nagotiation, and my first interests have to be with the South Kintyre Community who elected me. That is not to say - to the detriment of all others, which is why I posted in the first place - remember I didn't need to and I do so because I'm on your side in this. Perhaps the question to ask Cllr McAlpine is why did he take his holidays on the most important month of the councils callendar, when the budget is decided?



Could you also clarify your statement regarding parents taking the required action to retain the school meals service? Are you suggesting that the parents should dip into their own pockets to subsidise their childrens school meals, in order to keep the service going, bearing in mind most of these parents already pay council tax and contribute to their childrens school meals?

No, what Im suggesting is that you are pushing at an open door in terms of school meals, make a rumpus, this is not a significant cost to the council. What I am highlighting to you is the principle if you accept this - let me clarify - If you want good school meals I'm sure you could get them in Clachan, Tarbert or Campbeltown - your schools are in jepordy.

Forget the Council Tax it pays for less than a half of council services, and school meals are not a universal service so I suggest you should focus. You have friends, you have government policy to call on - I have absolutely nothing to gain in assisting you here, I am not the enemy.


Finally, are you proposing that A&B Council should build a custom built rural school to serve a larger community, for example the three schools at Skipness, Glenbarr and Rhunohairine, on a site accessable to all three areas?

No I am proposing that, the existing schools should provide the same level of service as they do at present if that is what you want, say it, say it loudly, say it effectively

It perpelxes me that the SNP elected councillors are voting against their own parties policies prior to the proposed legislation becoming active and contridictiory to the wishes of their constituants who clearly don't want their schools to close, or for that matter to have the school meals service.

You could make this a party political issue, but I would advise against it you could polarise opinion against your own interests, its a morallity, geographical and a rural issue, these are strong tools, use them.

Unfortunately I fear that, unless there is a significant change in the viewpoint across the political spectrum of the council, some communities will be disadvantaged by this review process with children having to travel to upwards of 10 - 15 miles to their primary schools.

Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but weren't you and the rest of the concillors voted for by the public to represent thier views, opinions and interests, and not to act in the best interests of the local government and their financial budget?

nobody pleases all of the people all of the time - I represent the interests of South Kintyre and sleep comfy in my bed for doing that. There is a simple solution to this and it is in your hands, kick up, contact your MSP, get vocal in the right places. This is my advice, I am trying to help you.

[muasdalemouse]

Councillor Semple, thank you for answering my questions. I'm sure the public are grateful for your input here and Councillor McAlpines input on Wednesday night and are capable of reading between the lines. We all know politicians barter what they consider to be more important issues off againt others, but I'm not sure that bartering childrens meals against whatever else you have decided to keep, is a decision that will sit well with any of the residents of South Kintyre.

I think it has been clear from the outset what the intention of the Council is and the people in the Kintyre Communities are not naive enough to see the School meal removal as, just that. By the same token, I'm also pretty sure that A&BC already know that they are running a dying region and are taking measures to centralise the communities (beginning with the schools), so as they can make the area an attractive one for new businesses to come and invest in...I hope for their sake it works.

It's true to make this a political argument might polarise opinion, but I dare say it would then become a 'them against us' argument, leading to more than a few of the 'proportionally elected representives' losing their seats at the next elections. That's if the electoral commission can actually get the voting right and actually have people in their seats who legally deserve to be there (no fingers being pointed - it's just a fact that the amount of wasted votes, due to poor planning and appalling administration has in all likelyhood meant a few councillors sitting in seats across Scotland who shouldn't be).

In anycase, if the people in this community get it together and kick up a fuss in Scottish Parliament, the national press on the radio, etc, perhaps embarrassing a few people along the way, the council will decide to cut, whatever it was that they were going to cut before selling off the school meals service.

That would probably cost as much as the amount they would have saved by just making those cuts in the first place. Defeats the point really! Still I'm not the one paid to have a bit of common sense.

[Beachcomber]

No, what Im suggesting is that you are pushing at an open door in terms of school meals, make a rumpus, this is not a significant cost to the council. What I am highlighting to you is the principle if you accept this - let me clarify - If you want good school meals I'm sure you could get them in Clachan, Tarbert or Campbeltown - your schools are in jeopardy.

A similar reduction scheme has been successfully operated for by British Telecom for some years now with rural telephone boxes, where they firstly change a public box over to card payment only then a little while later get rid of the box completely.

That would probably cost as much as the amount they would have saved by just making those cuts in the first place. Defeats the point really! Still I'm not the one paid to have a bit of common sense.

That was very much the case a couple of years ago when the same council announced, just before the end of the summer term, that it was going to change the rules for free school transport. There was a large response to this with numerous parents signalling their intent to appeals against the withdrawl of their children's transport, eventually forcing the council to make an embarrassing U-turn or face costs that would far out-strip the savings.

[muasdalemouse]

I have recieved information today from the office of Andrew Law. He has provided a breakdown of the costing for the school meals service provided to the 6 schools affected by the decision to remove school meals. These prices (09-10) range from £3.95 daily (Skipness) to unbelieveably £151.43 (Lismore). The total costing for the 6 schools is in the region of £60,500 for the provision of a total of 4957 meals.

The first question I have, is how can the council justify giving any business to a company that would are asking £151 for a school meal, up from £7.94 per meal?

Secondly, why haven't they offered the tender for the provision of school meals to local companies in an effort to get better rates, or offered a start-up grant opportunity for a new business?

Thirdly, most importantly, why have they voted to remove the school meals from Rhunahaorine (down from £8.03 - £6.14), Glenbarr (down from £6.24 - £5.19) and Skipness (down from £5.18 - £3.95)?

Lochdonhead (up from £5.58 - £5.83), Lismore (up from £7.94 - £151.43), Kilchattan (down from £24.47 - £21.34)

It seems to me that the council might be justified in removing the Lismore and Kilchattan meals services based on the extortionate prices they have been quoted, however, where the prices have remained about the same, or actually been reduced, there appears to be no justification, unless they wanted to make the £60,000 saving in other services.

As far as I am concerned cutting £40,000 from the 4 schools that have a reasonable uptake in meals, which are being quoted at a reasonable price, is a saving that could have been made elsewhere and I am now even more convinced that this is a serious error of judgement on the part of A&BC.

[Beachcomber]

These prices (09-10) range from £3.95 daily (Skipness) to unbelieveably £151.43 (Lismore). The total costing for the 6 schools is in the region of £60,500 for the provision of a total of 4957 meals.

I'd be fascinated to see the breakdown of the Lismore figure. What do they do, fly the food in daily?

I'm always sceptical of council estimates that overwhelmingly support the removal of a service. Just too good to be true.

[rainbowsprite]

http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/s3/bills/23-Schools/b23s3-introd-pm.pdf

No mention of school dinners in this. However, I thought it might be worth noting. I really hope you never have to make reference to it

[muasdalemouse]

These prices (09-10) range from £3.95 daily (Skipness) to unbelieveably £151.43 (Lismore). The total costing for the 6 schools is in the region of £60,500 for the provision of a total of 4957 meals.

I'd be fascinated to see the breakdown of the Lismore figure. What do they do, fly the food in daily?

I'm always sceptical of council estimates that overwhelmingly support the removal of a service. Just too good to be true.

Apparently there has only been an uptake of 42 meals at Lismore til Nov '08 based on a fixed rate of £10,328. It seems it should be 68...I don't know who's made these figures up, but it does seem like they've been pulled out of someones bottom.

A little bird also tells me that the council have already sat in a meeting to discuss restoring the school meals service, whilst cutting the budget in other areas. My source also tells me that the council want to make the communities work for it so that they don't look bad for doing a u-turn on the subject, but rather that they have miraculously found the monies to preserve this service. Nothing confirmed as yet! But I'm sure once the photos of the children at Glenbarr (taken today), together with a story slating the council in the national press will have the desired effect...especially since councillors are public blaming each other for the decision, when they all voted for the removal of the service.

[Beachcomber]

Are these figures daily, weekly, or what per child?

I saw the announcement of the new act on consultation, too, and wondered if A&B were trying to steal a march on it by announcing this early. It doesn't surprise me that they're already looking at ways they can reverse their decision without losing too much face. Are these people not accountable to anyone?