Proposed Closure of Southend Primary School for Nov 2nd

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Re: Proposed Closure of Southend Primary School for Nov 2nd

Postby John S » Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:20 pm

These SNP Councillors saw the full consultation proposals before they became public last week. Either:

1. They didn't know how flawed the proposal was because they didn't read the paperwork, which would be shameful, or,
2. They did read it, but didn't understand the full impact, which would show a terrible lack of judgement, or,
3. They did read the papers, and realised the impact, but didn't care, which is disgraceful!

Which was it?

4. These SNP Councillors didn't see the proposals before it appeared in public papers - its not a Labour Council Mary :@
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Re: Proposed Closure of Southend Primary School for Nov 2nd

Postby Sweltered » Tue Nov 02, 2010 4:34 pm

Who would want to be a councillor. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. On the outside looking in, but it would seem that JohnS and his colleagues are reacting to the views of the constituents and acting accordingly.

Of course some people are never, or will never be happy. Given a golden bowl of ambrosia and they'd complain about the temperature.

Partisan thinking solves nothing.

Oh and not that it matters, in my opinion, Southend School should stay open, and Drumlemble should be absorbed by Castlehill. The Peninver kids managed to adapt without fuss when it closed, and they had the same journey to and from school that the Drumlemble pupils would have.

AND

My kids get dropped of at school @ 7:30pm, and get picked up at 5:30pm. That's a 50hr week. Doesn't do them a jot of harm.
OOH did they knock down McCaigs folly.....
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Re: Proposed Closure of Southend Primary School for Nov 2nd

Postby Mary G » Tue Nov 02, 2010 7:10 pm

So John S identifies a fourth option:

4. They [SNP councillors] didn’t see the flawed (by their own admission) proposals, but still allowed them to go into the public domain, which is plain irresponsible.

But let’s be clear – that is still a choice. A conscious decision to allow ideas – however daft and dangerous – to be presented to the public as a Council proposal. A wholly reckless approach, and an abdication of responsibility.

Why reckless? Well, let's look at the damaging impact of the approach used by the SNP and independent ruling elite, not just on Southend, but across all of Argyll & Bute:

Children are frightened and demoralised, and feel that their education is under threat.
Recruitment of teachers becomes more difficult – would you apply for a job in a school that had the finger of closure pointed hanging over it? And even if hastily withdrawn, it does not look the most secure.
The quality of staffing drops, because good staff leave to perceived safer jobs, and perhaps the only people to apply for vacancies are those who cannot get a job anywhere else – for good reason….
House sales in the communities dip – because who wants to move to an area where the village school is closing, leading to vacant properties, with all loss of local revenue that involves.
House values fall, as demand drops, so decreasing the wealth of local people.
Communities feel let down and confidence declines, believing that their public bodies don’t want to sustain them, closing essential local community facilities.
Other local facilities decline, with difficulties recruiting to posts like ministers and doctors, as highlighted by Deirdre.
Families move away - to areas less under threat.
Families choose not to move in to our remote and island communities – further reducing the numbers in these schools.
Inward investment suffers – we know this because a big ‘sell’ in getting companies to move into an areas is the quality of local education, and if schools are closing that damages their confidence in our future.

Councillors need to take full responsibility for these terrible consequences. Because they are the direct result of their actions and inactions. They have undermined already fragile communities, instead of protecting and promoting them.

And are they happy about that? Is that what they wanted? Is that why they sought office?
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Re: Proposed Closure of Southend Primary School for Nov 2nd

Postby John S » Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:04 pm

Mary G wrote:So John S identifies a fourth option:

4. They [SNP councillors] didn’t see the flawed (by their own admission) proposals, but still allowed them to go into the public domain, which is plain irresponsible.



Och Mary is there is an election coming up? if you don't see the papers before they are public how can you not allow them to go into the public domain ???????? :? :? :?

But let’s be clear – that is still a choice. A conscious decision to allow ideas – however daft and dangerous – to be presented to the public as a Council proposal. A wholly reckless approach, and an abdication of responsibility.


Thats your opinion - these ideas are not daft or dangerous but are a product of the lengths that local authorities - aye labour ones included, are having to go to as a result of YOUR GOVERNMENTS mismanagement of the economy.... Gordon Brown is at the bottom of all these and people will not forget that when it comes to the May Elections

Tell me Mary, were you not employed by the discredited Labour Government as some kind of business advisor ?
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Re: Proposed Closure of Southend Primary School for Nov 2nd

Postby Isa » Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:33 am

Looking at the argument of distance I would say that the children who attend Southend have no choice but to attend the village school. Drumlemble pupils have a very clear choice minutes along the road to Campbeltown.
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Re: Proposed Closure of Southend Primary School for Nov 2nd

Postby Mary G » Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:58 am

Isa wrote:Looking at the argument of distance I would say that the children who attend Southend have no choice but to attend the village school. Drumlemble pupils have a very clear choice minutes along the road to Campbeltown.


I am with you there, Isa - you talk a lot of sense.

As for John S ... he needs to get a grip. This is about children and communities. Yet all John S wants to do is attack me.

It is always the last resort of the person wanting to avoid the issues when they resort to bully-tactics aimed at the messenger. Not that it is any of his business, but I have been employed in the private sector since 1989 - when Margaret Thatcher was still PM. So his notion that I have been some sort of Labour apparatchik must be his fantasy - it is certainly very far from reality.

What a disappointment to the people of Southend who should be able to expect more of one of their councillors. John S don't respond to a single one of the challenges I pose. At least we now know what to expect. Diverserion and obfuscation.
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Re: Proposed Closure of Southend Primary School for Nov 2nd

Postby John S » Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:01 am

Mary, the parents from Southend whom I am in communication with on a daily basis, the Southend community council that I attend, the parents meeting at the school tonight are the people that i am concerened with informing and asisting, not a political hac with an obsession for Nat Bashing. If I find the time over the next few days i will come back to your rant, but for the moment I wont be waisting my time.
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Re: Proposed Closure of Southend Primary School for Nov 2nd

Postby smiles » Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:03 am

Mary G wrote:Yet all John S wants to do is attack me.


Mary, having read this whole thread I think if anything you are the one who attacked John. Too many people on here with political backgrounds.
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Re: Proposed Closure of Southend Primary School for Nov 2nd

Postby James » Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:32 am

The Executive Committee decision I believe was simply to refer the matter to the Council. Who is in charge of policy at Argyll & Bute Council – the management or the Alliance of Independent Councillors Administration? One senior councillor at the meeting yestrerday suggested he had not seen the proposals before they were made public - imagine a cabinet minister using that defence, he would be rightly ridiculed. If it is not the Administration in charge, why are Senior Councillors being paid extra - to avoid cabinet responsibility?
It seems the management are taking the fall for the Council Leader’s impetuousness.
Many folk, who had travelled a long way to attend, came up to me after the Council meeting wondering what it was all about. A special (urgent) meeting of the Council is called by the Council Leader only for him to then propose at that meeting that a decision is postponed to allow the Council to clarify its position. When money is so tight is this a good use of taxpayer’s money? There was over half a million pounds of payroll sitting at the top table yesterday.
It may seem like a good compromise agreed by councillors but I had and still have reservations. It may turn out to be a great trick by the Administration. Who will benefit most from the extra time – the Council seeking to bolster its case to close schools or those communities fighting to keep local schools open? Would community groups have been better taking on the existing flawed proposals by the Council Administration in a consultation now or against the Council’s reinforced position that will be presented on the 25th of November. Time will tell.”
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Re: Proposed Closure of Southend Primary School for Nov 2nd

Postby Mary G » Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:14 pm

James wrote:... One senior councillor at the meeting yestrerday suggested he had not seen the proposals before they were made public - imagine a cabinet minister using that defence, he would be rightly ridiculed. If it is not the Administration in charge, why are Senior Councillors being paid extra - to avoid cabinet responsibility?
It seems the management are taking the fall for the Council Leader’s impetuousness. ...


Spot on, James!
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Re: Proposed Closure of Southend Primary School for Nov 2nd

Postby mrn » Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:25 am

Surprised of the lack of argument for the closure of Glenbarr Primary School? Quite apparent our elected officials do read this forum. To close Glenbarr and send the kids 18 miles north to Clachan is crazy!!
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Re: Proposed Closure of Southend Primary School for Nov 2nd

Postby Isa » Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:47 am

mrn wrote:Surprised of the lack of argument for the closure of Glenbarr Primary School? Quite apparent our elected officials do read this forum. To close Glenbarr and send the kids 18 miles north to Clachan is crazy!!


MRN I thought Glenbar to Clachan was 13 miles because I always thought it an uneconomical use of my Council Tax to have 3 schools within a 13 mile stretch Glenbar to Clachan with Rhunahaorine in the middle?

In saying that 13 miles is stiil a lot to expect young children to travel. For the purpose of debate I think Glenbar should stay open and so should Clachan but Rhunaherine like Drumlemble should be closed.
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Re: Proposed Closure of Southend Primary School for Nov 2nd

Postby Wee Southender » Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:49 pm

I attended the meeting last night in Southend Primary School, and was outraged that one of the councillors, one that, correct me if I am wrong, sits on the Education Committee, knew Southend was on the "Rural school closure list" 6 months ago and didnt want to tell the parents or community, as he felt it was an unnessary worry to put to them, I would think it was more a shock for parents to have had no warning at all! WHY did he not enlighten the parents and community of Southend??? The old saying... "to be forearmed is to be forewarned"!!!
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Re: Proposed Closure of Southend Primary School for Nov 2nd

Postby Isa » Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:35 pm

Wee Southender wrote:I attended the meeting last night in Southend Primary School, and was outraged that one of the councillors, one that, correct me if I am wrong, sits on the Education Committee, knew Southend was on the "Rural school closure list" 6 months ago and didnt want to tell the parents or community, as he felt it was an unnessary worry to put to them, I would think it was more a shock for parents to have had no warning at all! WHY did he not enlighten the parents and community of Southend??? The old saying... "to be forearmed is to be forewarned"!!!


As he was at a public meeting could you tell us who the councillor was?
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Re: Proposed Closure of Southend Primary School for Nov 2nd

Postby Wee Southender » Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:41 pm

The councillor at Southend Meeting was John Semple.

John S wrote: the parents from Southend whom I am in communication with on a daily basis, the Southend community council that I attend, the parents meeting at the school tonight are the people that i am concerened with informing and asisting, .
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