Kintyre- A people's past

Looking to search your family history or share your knowledge on genealogy in Kintyre? Then this is the place for you!

Kintyre- A people's past

Postby calmac » Sat May 06, 2017 2:35 pm

Does anyone have a copy of this book and could do a couple of lookups in the appendix for me please?
Family include fishermen of Irish origins.
calmac
The Quiet Type
The Quiet Type
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:27 am


Re: Kintyre- A people's past

Postby Iain » Sun May 21, 2017 9:11 am

calmac wrote:Does anyone have a copy of this book and could do a couple of lookups in the appendix for me please?
Family include fishermen of Irish origins.


Hi Calmac..., and welcome to the Kintyre Forum.

Don't you mean 'Kintyre - The Hidden Past' by Angus Martin ??

..., Iain.
User avatar
Iain
Can't Stay Away
Can't Stay Away
 
Posts: 602
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 5:10 pm
Location: Belgium


Re: Kintyre- A people's past

Postby calmac » Sun May 21, 2017 11:12 am

You may be right.

I am looking at a short article by Angus Martin in the Glynns of Antrim historical society journal which mentions an appendix in this book.

Ancestors were McLeans who came to Kintyre from Antrim. Duncan (carter), Betsy (McLachlan), Charles, Hugh.
Charles seems to have been a fisherman at least sometimes.

Ideally, I would love to know where they came from in Antrim to maybe get further back.

Can anyone help please???
calmac
The Quiet Type
The Quiet Type
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:27 am


Re: Kintyre- A people's past

Postby Iain » Sun May 21, 2017 12:47 pm

Hi there !

No luck !

Firstly, there are no McLeans listed in his index pages…, they are all MacLeans.
In the MacLeans, he has the following:
Donald of Machrihanish.
Rev. George of Campbeltown.
Hector of Taychroman.
Hugh of Kilchenzie.
John the grave-robber.
John, a cholera victim.
Ruari of Campbeltown.
Sorley.
Archibald, Dalintober ferryman.
Farquhar of Dalaruan.
Neil of Campbeltown.

If it’s Hugh of Kilchenzie, then he’s only mentioned once, very briefly and with no date. And it’s in relation to dialects in the region of Kintyre.

For future researches (and even this one) if you were to be more precise by adding dates and even hints like
http://antrimhistory.net/product-category/glynns/ it would make the research easier.

Have you tried…
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/
http://www.rootsireland.ie/

Regards…, Iain.
User avatar
Iain
Can't Stay Away
Can't Stay Away
 
Posts: 602
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 5:10 pm
Location: Belgium


Re: Kintyre- A people's past

Postby calmac » Sun May 21, 2017 1:25 pm

Thank you for looking and taking the trouble to reply so fully.

I'm told that spelling of surnames was fluid until recent times.
Hugh may have been the only one who could write.

There Is a family headed by Duncan Maclean, labourer in 1841 census age 55, Elizabeth (40), Andrew (18), Catharine (12), Margaret (10),
Hugh (8), Elizabeth (6) Christiana (9m), Martha 3; last 2 were born Argyllshire, the others Ireland.

There is a Charles listed in another household, but his birthplace is given as Argyllshire.

Charles married Flora McConachy of Killean in 1846, and died a pauper in1903 in Campbeltown. Age is given as 87, but that doesn't fit with census information. Best guess for a birth is 1826 probably recorded in an Irish church register if at all. I have tried various irish genealogy sites, but without a place, and with so much possible variation of spelling, it is hard to make progress.

My reference was the Glynns volume 13 1985 which coincidentally contains a review of Kintyre the hidden past.
calmac
The Quiet Type
The Quiet Type
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:27 am


Re: Kintyre- A people's past

Postby calmac » Sun May 21, 2017 2:12 pm

One more piece of information.

Duncan Mclean is described on Charles death certificate as a carter.
There was a list of carters in Campbeltown made in the 1830s sometime.
it would be interesting to know if he was on it.

I would have thought that being a carter suggested he was a countryman???
calmac
The Quiet Type
The Quiet Type
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:27 am


Re: Kintyre- A people's past

Postby Iain » Sun May 21, 2017 2:44 pm

Hi…, that’s better ! :wink:
Unfortunately, my info won’t help much with the exact Irish location. More research needed !

As you say, the 1841 census confirms all the names.
An interesting note here: As you can see, they are living in ‘Fleming’s Land.’ (Fleming's Land, High Street, Campbeltown)
In Campbeltown, ‘Lands’ were usually apartment blocks and named after their owners. In this case, the owner was Captain Fleming who was one of Nelson’s best men. At the time, he owned many properties in Campbeltown and lived along the shoreline just after the harbour.

In the meantime, your Duncan MacLean was a neighbour (above) my 3rd Great Grandfather. Neil McArthur 1795-1872 had the ground floor and was a shoemaker, born in Tiree ! (Tiree with an ‘i’)
But what is comical is his Great Granddaughter Mary MacArthur (my Grandmother who changed the McArthur name from Mc to Mac…, ‘snobbism’) married my Grandfather Malcolm Black.
All the Blacks in my family originated from Rathlin Island, Antrim. Nearly all fishermen and all are mentioned in Angus Martin’s book.

http://www.buildingsatrisk.org.uk/details/932378
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=10799

Concerning his wife Elizabeth McLauchlan born abt1801 who was also born in Ireland…, she’s also mentioned in the 61 census.
Note the 41 census; “MacLean.”

…, Iain.
Last edited by Iain on Sun May 21, 2017 3:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
Iain
Can't Stay Away
Can't Stay Away
 
Posts: 602
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 5:10 pm
Location: Belgium


Re: Kintyre- A people's past

Postby Iain » Sun May 21, 2017 3:02 pm

A two-line note here:
I have the 'Kintyre - Hidden Past' book thanks to the generosity of one of the Kintyre Forum members.
Sent to me here in Belgium from the kindness of his own heart.

Thank you again ! :)
User avatar
Iain
Can't Stay Away
Can't Stay Away
 
Posts: 602
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 5:10 pm
Location: Belgium


Re: Kintyre- A people's past

Postby calmac » Sun May 21, 2017 6:38 pm

Yes, that sounds tight. I reckon Duncan died some time after 1851, but possibly before registration came in. He would be born 1786 or even earlier to allow for rounding in the 1841 census. Elizabeth probably took her maiden surname thereafter.

Strange to say, I haven't found Elizabeth's death certificate, but there must be one somewhere. Very few Irish registers go back to 1801.

thank you for the information about Fleming's land. Not a great place to live.

The Glynns article contains 3 entries for Black.

Daniel Black bc1833 arrived Campbeltown c1838 from Rathlin or Ballycastle. Father Archibald, b1787 (s of John B crofter and Mary McCurdle), and Jane/Jean McKinlay bc 1798 both Rathlin... the ancestor of most Black family fishermen.

James Black born c1792 Co Antrim m Mary Morrison...

Sophia Black b 1814 Rathlin...

lots more info there if required.

Kintyre a people's past reputedly has the same surnames in the appendix, but I have not traced a copy, so you may be right about the title. Published 1984 by John Donald publishers; no longer around.

Two things would interest me from your book.
1. Does Angus mention a small boat which ran regularly from Cushenden to Southend?
2. Is there anything about people living in caves around Southend?

How amazing that we can know anything about people who lived so long ago.
calmac
The Quiet Type
The Quiet Type
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:27 am


Re: Kintyre- A people's past

Postby calmac » Wed May 31, 2017 3:28 pm

Do you happen to know if Elizabeth was Mclean or Mclauchlan in the 1861 census.
I happened to check Mc Lauchlan, living with Brother James in Bolgam Street, but didn't think that was her. Wrong age, unmarried...

MacLean was most likely fashionable and a recent spelling in 1841.
calmac
The Quiet Type
The Quiet Type
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:27 am


Re: Kintyre- A people's past

Postby Iain » Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:00 am

Hi Calmac…

As you have seen in the 41 census, it’s only normal that Elizabeth is down as a Mclean. But on Ancestry’s ‘Miller Family Tree’ she’s down as being McLauchlan.

Funnily enough, (according to this tree) she’s not with her husband in the 61 census. She’s with her daughter Elizabeth and son-in-law Thos Burke.

…, Iain.

------------

1861 Scotland Census

Name Elizabeth Mclean
Age 57
Estimated Birth Year abt 1804
Relationship Mother-in-law
Gender Female
Where born Mayo, Ireland
Registration Number 644/8
Registration district Anderston
Civil parish Glasgow Barony
County Lanarkshire
Address 9 Teviot St
ED 55
Household schedule number 42
Line 22
Roll CSSCT1861_108
Household Members Name Age
Thos Burke 34
Elizabeth Burke 34
Thos Burke 11
Margt Burke 6
Saml Burke 7 Mo
Elizabeth Mclean 57
User avatar
Iain
Can't Stay Away
Can't Stay Away
 
Posts: 602
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 5:10 pm
Location: Belgium


Re: Kintyre- A people's past

Postby calmac » Thu Jun 01, 2017 12:01 pm

This is very interesting indeed.
Tithe Applotment shows McLean to be a common name in Kilbride, County Mayo.
http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarc ... /index.jsp
Elizabeth Mclean is a common name though.
Is there any evidence to definitely connect her with the Campbeltown family?

Also, how odd that Scotland's people has no Elizabeth Mclean's in Campeltown in 1851.
calmac
The Quiet Type
The Quiet Type
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:27 am


Re: Kintyre- A people's past

Postby calmac » Wed Jun 14, 2017 4:53 pm

I checked the death and marriage entries for Elizabeth Burke/Mclean.

Sad to report her mother's maiden surname was McIntyre, and whatever her father's name was possibly George, but certainly not Duncan.

Their marriage entry tells us nothing.

That being so, unless further information comes to light 'Ireland' is the best guess.

I think that Duncan probably died before the 1851 census. Elizabeth could have been anywhere and/or have remarried. My understanding is that registration was introduced in 1855. She could, of course, have gone home to Ireland or moved. There are an awful lot of Elizabeth McLean's to search.

Thank you very much for your help with this.
calmac
The Quiet Type
The Quiet Type
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:27 am


Re: Kintyre- A people's past

Postby calmac » Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:52 pm

Hugh McLean died in 1891 age 57. He married Jean Porter (Southend, I think). Duncan and Elizabeth are named as his parents. Son Robert was the informant.

Hugh is described as a fisherman, age 28 and as seaman in 1861 census at which time they lived in Argylle Street.
Jean wife 29
children Elizabeth 8
Robert 4
Catherine 2
Hugh 6m

Hugh died in Bolgam Street, coincidentally the home of Elizabeth Mc Lauchlan and her brother James in 1861. Looking again at her age, it could be 50 or 52? or 57? Unmarried could be a mistake for widow. These old census documents are not always reliable.

I have been unable to find her death registered so far.

There must have been a communications difficulty between the Irish and the census makers?
calmac
The Quiet Type
The Quiet Type
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:27 am


Re: Kintyre- A people's past

Postby calmac » Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:05 pm

I wonder if this is helpful?

1841 Long Row
Mary McLachlan 50
Betsy McLauchlan 25
James McLauchlan Joiner journeyman 20
all born Argyllshire

1861
Bolgam Street

James McLauchlan head 48 joiner employing 2 men
Elizabeth McLauchlan sister 52 servant
both born Campbeltown

there is also an Elizabeth McLachlin in 1851, but I have not been able to check her out (mostly using freecen https://www.freecen.org.uk/

James looks like the same person despite the discrepancy in ages.

I am starting to think that Elizabeth Mclean has disappeared.
calmac
The Quiet Type
The Quiet Type
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:27 am



Return to Kintyre Genealogy

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest