Birmingham couple jailed for starving Khyra Ishaq

[blueboyno1]

I am not talking about getting hanged for stealing ,i am talking about getting hanged for commiting murder .As i have said before the loss of freedom in todays jails is a pure joke.Loss of freedom with hard jail time would be a whole different kettle of fish.

And anyway ionns it did work they sure as hell nevercommted murder again.

[ionnsaigh]

I am not talking about getting hanged for stealing ,i am talking about getting hanged for commiting murder .As i have said before the loss of freedom in todays jails is a pure joke.Loss of freedom with hard jail time would be a whole different kettle of fish.

And anyway ionns it did work they sure as hell nevercommted murder again.

Everything has a history even law. The law has been found guilty of some of the most terrible crimes committed, against humanity. The Churches played a major role in forming these laws. Scotland has undoubtedly suffered from hands that signed laws in Rome and London. Anyway if we see the changes in law throughout our history, we can map certain improvements. I suppose the removal of the death sentence for minor offenses, as being the most notable and praiseworthy of modern change, wouldn't you ?
The whole point of a deterrent, is to deter everyone else, in that respect it fails to prevent further crime. Even with the ultimate death penalty deterrent, people murder mostly - in the heat of the moment - consideration as to punishment during such an event - is highly unusual. Don't you think ?
Lets look again at this perception of easy street and loss of liberty , it serves only to discredit and undermining Liberty.
For who in their right frame of mind, would lose their freedom without mourning. Personal freedom is regarded as a human right, if you loss that - then perhaps you lose enough.

[bill]

Personal freedom is regarded as a human right, if you loss that - then perhaps you lose enough.

I think the murder victim loses more than personal freedom.So why not also the murderer?

[EMDEE]

That sounds fair enough if we had a judicial system that we could rely on to get it right 100% of the time. Many instances have shown us that this is obviously not the case. How do we compensate someone for a miscarriage of justice when they are six feet under?

[Govangirl]

I agree with you Emdee which is why I do not support capital punishment BUT I still can’t understand why either a fortnight or a life sentence should entail a life of anything other than poverty and deprivation. Just this past week alone, I’ve learned from both the Huntley case and that of Sarah Payne’s killer that prisoners are allowed mobile phones, computers, cigarettes and every comfort under the sun. Time and time again, they’re caught with drugs and even photos of the kids they killed!!!!! They get out to go on shopping trips, no doubt funded by their weekly wages and pocket money and if they get attacked by an inmate, as we’ve seen this week, they’re in line for a £20k payout!
I would bet there’s an awful lot of pensioners that would gladly give up their freedom for the life of an inmate so don’t make me laugh Ionns.

[ionnsaigh]

I still can’t understand why either a fortnight or a life sentence should entail a life of anything other than poverty and deprivation.

So how would you determine those innocents, who already live a life of poverty and deprivation. A socialist would not wish poverty and deprivation on anyone. Or so I was led to believe.

[Govangirl]

Poverty of an outside life - wages, pocket money, compensation, etc.
Deprivation of an outside life - mobiles, computers, TV, etc.

As if you didn't know what I meant . . .

[ionnsaigh]

I would bet there’s an awful lot of pensioners that would gladly give up their freedom for the life of an inmate so don’t make me laugh Ionns.

The prisons are virtually overflowing with pensioners as we speak. That is part of the problem we are locking people up left right and centre. Young Mothers and children, the mentally ill, fine evaders etc etc.
If we could only stop baying for blood, and listen to front line staff they will paint a very different picture of life behind bars. As a so called civilised society, at times we appear to be nothing more, than a mob of savages thirsty for revenge.
I enjoy making you laugh

[Govangirl]

As a so called civilised society, at times we appear to be nothing more, than a mob of savages thirsty for revenge.

There are aspects of your argument I agree with but I think that's where you draw the line. To me, a civilised society respects life and does not condone capital punishment but the way we run our prisons is also a fair measure of the state of that society.
I am all for keeping prison sentences for those whose offending is so serious that they cannot serve their sentence in the community - those who are persistent criminals should be put in in prison AND
I am all for just and humane treatment in prisons - I don't believe that this needs to be X Boxes and Sky TV.
A prisons officers' leader revealed only yesterday that prisons have become so comfortable that some offenders prefer to stay on the inside rather than face life outside. I know someone who is currently a serving officer in a notorious prison in Kent and he says it's like treading on eggshells not to upset any prisoner's human rights. He says he's constantly intimidated by prisoners, is not given enough time for daily searches and although he believes in rehabilitation, says prisons need to be much tougher.
In the case of murderers, rapists and paedophiles, dungeons, chains and bread and water would be fine with me.

So go and shake your 'Poor Prisoners' tin somewhere else, I've got a meeting of Savage Mob Anonymous I've got to attend.

[blueboyno1]

Govangirl ,where do i sign up for that group

[Govangirl]

I'll meet you tomorrow night Blueboy. We'll go to Ionns' house first, put a brick through his window and steal his TV. After we kick his head in he'll invite us in for a bit of tea to give us pair of innocents, who already live a life of poverty and deprivation, a chance to explain our poor predicament of not having enough cash for our next fix.

He'll understand.

[blueboyno1]

[ionnsaigh]

So go and shake your 'Poor Prisoners' tin somewhere else, I've got a meeting of Savage Mob Anonymous I've got to attend.

What a brilliant last line girl - I love it. Pity about the following glaring contradiction, though.

I am all for just and humane treatment in prisons

In the case of murderers, rapists and paedophiles, dungeons, chains and bread and water would be fine with me.

It's interesting to note that you deem those three examples of crime, Murder Rape and Pedophilia, as somehow warranting the same conditions of punishment. Dungeons, chains and bread and water. From these crimes, would you agree that whereas they are all terrible terrible crimes, that murder however has the edge, in terms of consequences ?
I would be tempted to put both rape and pedophilia on an equal footing, at least in that they are essentially the same crime, rape. However on reflection pedophilia comes a close second on the gravity scale. Not any comfort to the poor victim of rape I know. However we can safely assume that all children are innocent, we can't make that assumption with adults alas. So in terms of the gravity of the crime, murder has place of honour, in the despicable crime league.
Yet you would advocate and dispense, what could only be regarded as torture to all three, under the guise of your own misguided understanding of what justice and retribution are. One of the most important things is the removal of these deviants for safety reasons. That should remain our highest concern.

Now hear me thinking, that according to Christianity, God is the only deity that can dispense retribution ( I may be wrong although I'm confident you will put me right )

[blueboyno1]

What good does it do to remove these deviants for 2/3/4 years only for them to re offend as soon as they are released .
I seem to remember a passsage in the bible which says ,vengance is mine said the lord and an eye for an eye.

[Govangirl]

under the guise of your own misguided understanding of what justice and retribution are.

Ok you caught me out there - it's actually the Misguided Savage Mob Anonymous meeting that Blueboy and I are going to but hey, what's in a name?