The Kintyre Forum

As this subject came up on another thread, I had a look for information on it, and came up with this:

http://www.lochgelly-tawse.co.uk/

I, along with my contemporaries and others of earlier generations, spent our school careers with this evil barbaric threat ever in the background. It is truly unbelievable that this practice existed in the education system of an allegedly civilised country in such recent times.

We used to get the "Strap " for spelling errors when I was at the primary school in Carradale
I told this to my granddaughter who then asked if being belted helped you become a good speller.
I can still make mistakes,so the method for improvement wasn't foolproof.

The belt (I never knew it as the 'tawse' or heard any of my colleagues refer to it as such) was indeed a barbaric instrument, but it was relatively effective in maintaining good order and discipline in the perhaps less enlightened times in which it was used. When I took up my first post in an inner city Glasgow comprehensive back in 1977, I was resolved to be a progressive teacher who would not use the belt under any circumstances. Whether by accident or design, I found myself timetabled for the third year bottom Geography section, composed mainly of the real bears, the sort of guys whose knuckles dragged along the floor of the corridor as they moved around the school. From day one they gave me a hard time and none of the ammunition in the progressive teacher's armoury had any effect. About three weeks in I had had enough. A pair of twins in the class were the ringleaders, so I sent one of them to the head of department with the request to borrow his belt. When he came back with it, I took him and his brother out into the corridor (never having used one before I didn't want to do it in front of the class in case I made a mess of it) and gave them four each. I had no trouble from them or the rest of the class from that day on. Next morning I found that the head teacher had put into my pigeon hole in the staffroom (the word must have got around) the Glasgow Corporation standard issue belt, a pathetic specimen that would hardly have been any use in swatting flies. With the assistance of my head of department, I sent off to J & J Dick, Saddlers, Main Street, Cowdenbeath, for the "extra-heavy Lochgelly". It cost £3.80 and was a fearsome thing with two tails, about and inch and a half wide and about half an inch thick. I don't think I ever used it. It lived in the top drawer of my desk and, at the start of each new school year, I would go through a pantomime of looking for something in the drawer, throwing its contents on to the top of the desk, then gathering it all back in again when I had found the object of the search. But the belt had been seen and that seemed to be enough. I have no doubts as to the effectiveness of the belt in its day, but its day is, thankfully, long gone.

Their could be a bit of debating here on this issue and i fear it will resolve nothing, nor will it change any participants mind on what they believe is right or wrong.

I was no stranger to the belt and today i'm not proud of the fact. However it didn't cause myself or from what i can see, my peers any long lasting harm, nor am i or my peers child beaters because we had the strap. I don't doubt that some who administered it, were at times over zelous in their actions but on the whole it did, without a doubt act as a very good deterent, available if required.

Today the kids 'laugh' at the lack of punishment available to teachers, if they get shouted at they go home and tell their parents who probably phone or visit the school demanding to know why they've upset their child. In my day if you went home and told your parents you had been given the strap, you would end up with their foot up your arse and then they would ask 'why?' Because they trusted the teachers judgement, with a mind that if you got the belt you deserved it and they were probably right in most cases.

As you can see i am a firm believer in the 'Strap' and think that it should be reintroduced immediately.

Coxy wrote:Their could be a bit of debating here on this issue and i fear it will resolve nothing, nor will it change any participants mind on what they believe is right or wrong.

I was no stranger to the belt and today i'm not proud of the fact. However it didn't cause myself or from what i can see, my peers any long lasting harm, nor am i or my peers child beaters because we had the strap. I don't doubt that some who administered it, were at times over zelous in their actions but on the whole it did, without a doubt act as a very good deterent, available if required.

Today the kids 'laugh' at the lack of punishment available to teachers, if they get shouted at they go home and tell their parents who probably phone or visit the school demanding to know why they've upset their child. In my day if you went home and told your parents you had been given the strap, you would end up with their foot up your arse and then they would ask 'why?' Because they trusted the teachers judgement, with a mind that if you got the belt you deserved it and they were probably right in most cases.

As you can see i am a firm believer in the 'Strap' and think that it should be reintroduced immediately.

You could not have quoted any better.
I'll not forget Eddie Miller of the science dept who would put a towel over your wrists to minimise the damage done, and I still delivered his sunday papers that week .

jdcarra wrote:I'll not forget Eddie Miller of the science dept who would put a towel over your wrists to minimise the damage done, and I still delivered his sunday papers that week .

I remember the towel! Did Eddie Miller not also stand at your side when using the belt, rather than facing you? A quite unusual technique.

I can appreciate WC1’s dilemma in a Glasgow comprehensive, and the fact that nobody is in a better position to know the difference between that and CGS.

From my own experience, many teachers never needed to use the belt, as they could create a two-way respectful relationship with pupils, and the belt was there in a similar way that the existence of nuclear weapons contributes to a more peaceful world. Violence may create order in some cases, but it can also cause resentment rather than respect.

The belt may not have done anybody any long-term harm, but did it do them any long-term good?

Was anyone ever belted by a long-serving, female maths teacher?

If so, I just wondered how that affected you, and your behaviour...

EMDEE wrote:

jdcarra wrote:I'll not forget Eddie Miller of the science dept who would put a towel over your wrists to minimise the damage done, and I still delivered his sunday papers that week .

I remember the towel! Did Eddie Miller not also stand at your side when using the belt, rather than facing you? A quite unusual technique.

I can appreciate WC1’s dilemma in a Glasgow comprehensive, and the fact that nobody is in a better position to know the difference between that and CGS.

From my own experience, many teachers never needed to use the belt, as they could create a two-way respectful relationship with pupils, and the belt was there in a similar way that the existence of nuclear weapons contributes to a more peaceful world. Violence may create order in some cases, but it can also cause resentment rather than respect.

The belt may not have done anybody any long-term harm, but did it do them any long-term good?

First met Eddie Miller and his wife 6 years ago, they are members of the same church in Helensburgh as my aunt
and uncle.

I was half way through the grammer when the belt was taken away, and teachers had to spend time, use up valuable resources and contend with the general disruption of handing out written punishments, whereas with old Horace, bang! bang! bang!, and it was all over, not a word from any bugger for the rest of the lesson.
I remember "getting six" from a technical teacher, who shall remain nameless, but was a bit like John Cleese in stature and used the word "tube" a lot. That was the last time I ever put myself in the position to merit getting the belt, hated him at the time, but got to respect him as he was a brilliant teacher, and I had no option because I got stuck with him in 3rd and 4th year for woodwork.
All that said, I think things have moved on too far for the belt to be brought back, it is 25 years.

I feel that"having the strap"quickly taught me discipline and respect.Sadly lacking today.Is this thread posted by grumpy old gits like me?

Mary G wrote:Was anyone ever belted by a long-serving, female maths teacher?

If so, I just wondered how that affected you, and your behaviour...

Would she be the one who drove a grey Renault Caravelle?

Did you have a bad experience? If you did that surprises me , I would have thought you would be a model pupil. Maybe Maths was not your subject.

Hey EMDEE - you got it in one! She was in, let's say, a different league of teachers with a belt.

I have vivid memories of others being belted by her, and the consequences ...

But you are right - up to a point: I was never belted, but would certainly not go as far as to say I was a model pupil

The main thing that upsets me is I never fully appreciated the merits of being beaten by middle aged women with leather straps when I was a juvenile. The kind of entertainment I'm having to pay good hard cash for these days

PS. If you see Mrs Sheik, I'm only joking!

Ah yes i remember it well,i think it was about 50/50 for side on or full frontal,the side on tended to curl round the hands and warm the backs of them as well.Happy days indeed.
some of the bigger kids brushed off the painfull effects but us mortals learned a harsh lesson.Not sure if we need to reinstate it though.

Did I hear someone call for the return to the Strap?