Kintyre Vernacular

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Kintyre Vernacular

Postby EMDEE » Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:21 am

The point has been made on another thread on this forum that the use of "Toon Dialect" or what could be more widely defined as "Kintyre Vernacular" may be causing difficulties of comprehension to some forum members. :?

My own view of this is that local and regional dialects have had more recognition in recent years and are not now regarded as "slang" or slovenly speech in the way they used to be.

Much effort has gone in to the promotion and preservation of the Scots Language. It is now recognised that it is inextricably linked with the culture of the country and is something worth conserving.

The Bible has been translated ino the Scots language. What higher endorsement can it get?

Some of the greatest poetry ever written is in the Scots language. If Burns had only written in Standard English we would not be meeting every January, consuming haggis (which he elevated to a delicacy), consuming as much whisky as we can get away with, and appreciating his vernacular poetry, philosophy, politics and humour. It is his background and his use of the language of the people that helps to make him credible, and have given us a world-class literary figure with whom the people of Scotland can identify.

Why then do people denigrate their own language? Is it familiarity breeding contempt? I have met people from other places who find the Campbeltown dialect fascinating. It is unique. It is, I believe, a combination of Highland Lowland and Irish, with a fair bit of Gaelic in the way of local words.

Whilst it is obviously not something that anyone would do every time they wrote anything down, I do not see that there is any harm in contributors using the local lingo on the forum. As well as anything else it helps to make it more informal.

What are the views of other forum members?
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Postby hugh » Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:07 am

I've got no problems with it, but then again it was my first language. I can see where some people could have a problem with some word
definitons; "boonyach", "gyads", "boossin'" etc.

I'm not sure if those examples have actually appeared here, or are still in use locally but that's the kind of word I mean. I must have heard nearly every accent and dialect there is in these islands, but there are words and phrases I've never heard used outside Kintyre.
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Postby EMDEE » Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:16 am

I think there was a previous thread on Kintyre words way back somewhere. Maybe it would be an idea to compile a Kintyre word and phrasebook. To my knowledge this has never been done as such. I know that Angus Martin and Freddy Gillies both have sections in their books on the language of Kintyre, and I found their analysis very interesting.

Maybe a glossary page could be added to the forum for non-natives.

The three words you quote are typical Kintyre words, and I think that two of them at least have Gaelic origins. Not so sure about the origins of "gyads". Another interesting word that I hadn't heard for a while appeared on the Carradale thread recently-"jaloused", meaning to work something out.
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Postby general jack o'niell » Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:33 am

sadly the younger generations are using the less shall we say colouring words, words that take a whole sentence to explain, in favour of the more colourful local words, you'll all have heard it, some might have used it, favourite local word of today's teens is "hoora" as in "its a hoora night ootside wae whin an ren" "thats a hoora nice blouse yir werrin" or as my 12yr old daughter in her current predicament answered the ambulance driver robert in the early hours of yesterday morning, her stomach was "hoora sore" , no i'm not a fan of the descriptive term either.but it is a hoora night ootside.
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Postby spangles » Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:36 am

hugh wrote:I must have heard nearly every accent and dialect there is in these islands, but there are words and phrases I've never heard used outside Kintyre.

Anywhere else speak like this?

"It's elleeven meenuts past seevun, Hoots the time? I'm hoora late. Och well there's nathin I can dae aboot it noo. She'll jeest need tae wet on me!


One word that strangers find different Stie as in "where dae yi Sti" I know that word is used other places but not in the context of asking "where do you live"?

or am I wrang?

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Postby ionnsaigh » Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:00 am

Aye yur wrang - a sti in Glasgow. :D
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Postby general jack o'niell » Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:18 am

your mixing your dialects there, the seevan and eleeven is carradale, the rest campbeltown, as in the carradale fraternity's way of describing townspeople as being ah "hootin an ga'in" this also can now when written get mixed up with modern text speak, the question "where ur ye ga'n?" "where are you going?" uses the word "ur" or "are" which when written can be confused for the term "u r" or "you are" when used used locally to avoid confusion this would be written as "y'ur" as in "y'ur tolkin a doze a push" which translates as "you are talking a lot of nonsense" there are lots of small words like this, another favourite being da'n, as in "u naw gut anifin be'r tae be da'n?" "do you not have anything better to be doing?" as a question, asking if the person could not find a more productuve way to be spending their time? as highlighted by the word "be'r" as "better" in the town habit of dropping the "T" as used in the name itself, anyonefrom the town, while away. may be asked where they are from? the answer of "cam'l'un" usually recieves the further quiery of "hamilton?"
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Postby daftdog » Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:28 am

I personally don't mind the odd word of slang in a post and think it has its place in the oral world. It should be encouraged and celebrated in written form as well, in poems and stories or it will die out and disappear just as the Gaelic has to a certain extent. Personally, i think Gaelic should be introduced to primary schools in a small way then a bit more as the school years progress, as it is our heritage we are talking about. When its gone, its gone. Its easier to teach it to the children, then their children etc, than it is to teach most of us old gits.

I just don't like trawling through a post that is written in about 80% slang, as my eyes and brain don't glide through it, thus i lose interest.

Most of the time i just skip the post as soon as i see it, which means i have to leave the topic as i usually lose the flow of the conversation.

Most of the time though the use of the local dialect is used in its proper place in the forum and doesn't detract to much from a topic. If visitors don't understand the post, they will just go to another topic. I don't think it harms the forum much, only in that people like me just don't read it so well, then lose interest in that particular conversation.
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Postby EMDEE » Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:42 pm

general jack o'niell wrote:sadly the younger generations are using the less shall we say colouring words, words that take a whole sentence to explain, in favour of the more colourful local words, you'll all have heard it, some might have used it, favourite local word of today's teens is "hoora" as in "its a hoora night ootside wae whin an ren" "thats a hoora nice blouse yir werrin" or as my 12yr old daughter in her current predicament answered the ambulance driver robert in the early hours of yesterday morning, her stomach was "hoora sore" , no i'm not a fan of the descriptive term either.but it is a hoora night ootside.



I've always found the expression "hoora" to be quite an amusing one. Not sure if it has much of a history but it is obviously a variant of "helluva". Example: "Ye're a hoora man". Considering the origins of the word, how is it physically possible for anybody to be a "hoora man"? But that's language for ye.

There's a hoora loat o' local words. Here's some mer to go on wi'.

synd
sapples
dwamlin'
trooshlach
snashters
eenoo
gunker
colliegleean

Got them all? :?: :?:
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Postby Sweltered » Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:43 pm

:arrow:
Last edited by Sweltered on Tue May 12, 2009 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
OOH did they knock down McCaigs folly.....
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Postby general jack o'niell » Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:09 pm

good to see they are still in use, i'm just off the phone with my daughter of 12, who is coming home from hospital today, she said she was starvin as they only fed her tuna sandwiches and i havce strict instructions to get some schnasters in for her, a favourite word of hers, her other i've already highlighted and in my opinion not befitting a young lady, and yes she said hozzie food was wilekin
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Postby Bobbie En Tejas » Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:58 pm

When I read sentences in dialect, I can hear it. Can you say that of regular English? Can you hear my accent versus Bill's versus Ionns? I wouldn't want to read every post with it, and as daft says, the longer posts are sometimes hard to get through, but I like reading the shorter posts or the occasional lines with it.

Btw, can you all translate the words you are listing?
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Postby Jock Strap » Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:06 pm

Fanyach - don't have a scooby if this is anywhere near how you should spell it but does anyone know if this is a Kintyre word? Meaning to go droll. 8) :lol:
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Postby Annie » Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:45 pm

Is that naw laek hain a caniption (sp)???
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Postby EMDEE » Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:09 am

Bobbie En Tejas wrote:
Btw, can you all translate the words you are listing?


In the style of Stanley Baxter’s “Parliamo Glasgow”, I have made up a short narrative to demonstrate the use of the words I have listed and then translated into standard English:

Local Dialect

Wee Willie got a gunker when he was eatin’ that much trooshlach an’ shnashters that he took a dwamlin’ an’ spewed doon himsel’.

He had te wash a’ his claes wi’ loads o’ sapples an’ then synd them a’ oot’.

He’s wettin’ for them te dry eenoo, but he’ll need te watch a colliegleean doesna get intae his boxers while they’re hingin oot on the line or he might take another dwamlin' when he pits them on.
:D

Standard English

Little William got a nasty surprise when he was eating so many inferior sweets and confections that he took a sudden funny turn and vomited on his clothing.

He had to put all his clothes in the washing machine and then rinse them.

At the moment he’s waiting for his clothes to dry, but he’ll have to be careful that an earwig doesn’t find its way into his underpants while they’re airing on the drying green, or he may take another funny turn when he puts them on.
:(
Summary

You will notice how much more expressive and descriptive the local words are. It is my contention that standard English is insipid compared to local dialects.
:?:
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