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Re: Solidarity with France

PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2015 3:30 pm
by Shona
Thank you to everyone for their generous comments about my posts. I've had to research and write about many topics and know from experience that many headlines and stories in newspapers are simplistic. What I found depressing was the impression that Muslims had not condemned the atrocities in Paris. This was not the case and I wanted to set the record straight. When faced with such a menace as Daesh, we must not not let propaganda divide us. Marian has had the good grace and manners to appreciate that the initial impression which prompted the thread was not correct. How many others, however, still believe it to be the case that Muslims did not speak out following the attacks? Particularly following the Sun's disgraceful headline which stated that a quarter of British Muslims backed Isis. Not true. If anyone cared to look at the actual questions asked by Survation, Isis was never mentioned. But why let the truth get in the way of a good headline which will sell newspapers?

Debate and discussion is healthy and I welcome it. We are indeed lucky to live in a part of the world where we can voice out views without fear of prison, torture or death. Freedom of expression is a right under British law. However, it has never been an absolute right - there are many exceptions.

Much of what follows is copied from the internet (but checked by me), as I am still a little rusty in the brain department following recent serious illness.

The exceptions included threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour intending or likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress or cause a breach of the peace, sending any article which is indecent or grossly offensive with an intent to cause distress or anxiety, incitement, incitement to racial hatred, incitement to religious hatred, incitement to terrorism including encouragement of terrorism and dissemination of terrorist publications, glorifying terrorism, collection or possession of a document or record containing information likely to be of use to a terrorist, treason including advocating for the abolition of the monarchy (which cannot be successfully prosecuted) or compassing or imagining the death of the monarch, sedition (no longer illegal, sedition and seditious libel (as common law offences) were abolished by section 73 of the Coroners and Justice Act 20090, obscenity, indecency including corruption of public morals and outraging public decency, defamation, prior restraint, restrictions on court reporting including names of victims and evidence and prejudicing or interfering with court proceedings, prohibition of post-trial interviews with jurors, scandalising the court by criticising judges,harassment, privileged communications, trade secrets, classified material, copyright, patents, military conduct, and limitations on commercial speech such as advertising. UK defamation laws are some of the strictest in the world.

Re: Solidarity with France

PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 1:10 am
by Govangirl
Shona, well done again Girl, you're smashing!!

After the Paris attacks, you just knew it wouldn't be long to wait for the onslaught of The Great British Public calling for Muslims to denounce extremist ideology, it's like a ritual after any attack now as if they haven't already - consistently, repeatedly and publicly - condemned terrorism and extremism committed in the name of Islam. I do recall after Paris a large advert placed by British Muslims in the media unreservedly condemning Daesh. Is it that folk didn't see it it don't want to see it?

What's worse though - and I was shocked on my Fb page by how many of them I know - are the number of people who believe ALL Muslims are somehow responsible for acts of terror committed by those whose actions and beliefs are utterly in opposition to their own beliefs and values.

Your list of exceptions is most interesting. I watched a speech last week by Trump and he's got an eye on breaking a few of these.

Re: Solidarity with France

PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:31 pm
by gray_marian
Excuse my tardiness on late reply, my grand daughter's birth came three weeks early
therefore had more pressing matters to concern me.

Having read your latest post Shona and reading your further pontifications on the Muslim community you then proceed to lecture about a survey and the latest rantings of a trash tabloid. Yet you proudly display the the name of Aamer Anwar as a stalwart of the MCB who writes a coloum for said rag. You may rate him Shona I most certainly do not. Human Right Lawyers who charge an arm and a leg to Legal Aid to defend a member of the" Scottish Solidarity Party" [GG will fill you in] or for the low lives who killed FusilierLee Rigby are way down in my estimation.

You conveniently forget Shona debate is something of a western right. Try to debate anything against the ruling regimes of Islamic nations within their borders and you will rather inconveniently find your head disconnected from your body. You talk about Muslims as if they are the arbiters of freedom, never mind freedom of speech. Those who have chosen to make the pilgrimage to the west as opposed to mecca [cause mecca won't let them in] now find that they are in the lands of free speech. They are free to talk about the horrors of living in such a repressed and brutal society. Well I'm not hearing it. ONE advert in two newspapers and TWO PARAGRAPHS on MCB website doesn't cut it. When you have a terrorist organization like Islamic States the onus is for Muslims en masse to declare ' Not In My Name '. Here is the Muslim culture Shona, it's barbaric. It hasn't changed in seven hundred years and by refusing to move forward we are left with a nefarious intendment like this:

Andrew Neil went viral with the following personal comment just after the Paris atrocities

Andrew Neils words struck a cord with me Shona WHY? because politically correct folk like you, keep foisting their sanctimonious views on the general public who disagree and are afraid to be labelled. Look what happened today regarding this PC eejit in Italy

" An Italian headmaster has been forced to resign after his decision to cancel his school’s Christmas carol concert in light of the Paris attacks was criticised by the country's Prime Minister. Marco Parma, 63, decided to cancel the traditional Christmas festivities at the Garofani School in Rozano near Milan to avoid offending non-Christian pupils. But the decision was heavily criticised by the school’s pupils - including its non-religious and Muslim students.Italy's Prime Minister Matteo Renzi told the Corriere della Sera he thought Mr Parma was making a "big mistake".He said: "Debate and dialogue does not mean drowning identities in an instinct and insipid form of political correctness."All Italians, both non-religious and Christians, will never give up Christmas." Defending the move, Mr Parma said he had good intentions and decided to cancel the concert after terrorist attacks in Paris killed 130 people. Instead, he decided to postpone the concert till 21st January and make it a "Winter Concert" with no religious songs. But a Muslim parent at the school, Mahmoud El Kheir, who is originally from Egypt, said: "Who are us Muslims to say what can happen at an Italian school? We are guests in this country. I hope the public understand that the decision was not made because of a request by Muslim parents."His wife, Laila Magar, said their twins, Fatma and Yassin, took part in Christmas celebrations at the school and sang "traditional Catholic songs" with the other children. "Why create a problem that doesn’t exist?" she said."

Alleluia common sense prevails. My views Shona are not racist however much you might disagree I know within my heart I would be the first to defend ANYONE who was being ridiculed or attacked in the street. What scares me is the distinct lack of law abiding Muslims to openly demonstrate against those Muslims who preach against the Western way of life. Thankfully now we have several exjihadists speaking out and a few trying to run clubs for Muslim youths to educate them but it's been a long time coming that's what I'm angry about.

As for GG who rode in on Shona's coatails and then imply that my views mimic those of the reprobates on her facebook page was lazy and pathetic. Noticed both failed in common courtesy to respond to Lochend who to my mind also made valid points!

Re: Solidarity with France

PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:06 pm
by Shona
I'm still recovering from critical illness, GM, so it is entirely possible you may find some holes in my arguments. Two emergency operations to save my life were bad enough and then I got sepsis. Touch and go, it was. I have good days and bad days. Typing to post words on the forum takes me much longer than before and leaves me exhausted. I hope members will understand.

Congrats on the arrival of the grandchild, GM. You must be thrilled. Hope mum and baby are doing well.

Re: Solidarity with France

PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 9:14 pm
by gray_marian
I am genuinely sorry to hear you are still so unwell Shona, I sincerely hope you make a full recovery as soon as possible. Perhaps debate should be left for a while yet considering how taxing it must be to type. Admire your stoicism as I would be exactly the same.Thank you, mother and baby are in fine form. Take care, Marian

Re: Solidarity with France

PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:32 am
by Govangirl
You are a very gracious lady Shona.
I'm not. Grating_Marian, I was not talking about you in my earlier post. I tend to ignore your rantings and snipes. You need to read a bit more carefully, thank you.