Page 1 of 2

Sturgeon

PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 9:56 pm
by Govangirl
Watched her speech tonight. Obviously no one believed it was going to be a one-of-a-generation vote but her recent assertions confuse me: in continuing to attack the constitution is she not covering for the fact that her government record is so awful??????

#playingdevil'sadvocate

Re: Sturgeon

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:23 pm
by Ship called Dignity
Govangirl wrote:is she not covering for the fact that her government record is so awful??????


In what way? Of course there will be many faults but on the whole I think our country has moved forward under the SNP. Not perfect but certainly better than what Labour were doing.

Re: Sturgeon

PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 1:59 pm
by Govangirl
Okay, in my quest to get some discussion going, there has to be controversy :shock:

The only policy is independence - what other credible policies have been put in place? After all the flag-waving propaganda, what has changed? I'm talking about the major issues: education, the NHS, job losses, pensions, oil, poverty, etc. - the SNP got Stuart Hosie to answer these questions and it was excruciatingly embarrassing, was it not?


AND I don't get that the SNP, who don't want to belong to an austerity-driven UK, now want to belong to an austerity-driven EU! :@

#stillplayingdevil'advocate

Re: Sturgeon

PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:00 pm
by petewick
The SNP propositions offer a more realistic and better society than what successive and unwanted Westminster governments have ever given us.......the last general election shows that the Scottish people are fed up of lies and betrayals from the south....

Re: Sturgeon

PostPosted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 5:44 pm
by Govangirl
But I'm not talking about independence Petewick, the people have voted on that and made their decision. Yes, SNP had a resounding victory but with their own Parliament what has changed? In what ways has society become 'better' then?

Re: Sturgeon

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:25 pm
by petewick
Independence will eventually come,don't bury your head in the sand. It will be better when Scotland can claim it's oil revenue of 24 billion pounds instead of the Westminster parasites getting their hands on it......

Re: Sturgeon

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:52 pm
by Hume
I don't have all the facts and figures to hand so I will stick to a couple of things that I'm fairly sure are true, Govangirl. Crime, I think, is at historic low in Scotland. Now I know the single Police force has had some high profile problems but it must also deserve some credit, along with the individual forces prior to amalgamation, for its/their role in that.

Low crime must surely be an indicator of an improved society?

Whilst the Scottish Government does not have control over Welfare, and therefore the power to abolish the Spare Room Subsidy / Bedroom Tax, it has effectively mitigated its effects to the cost of £50m (p.a. ? ) from its budget. That is money that should be getting spent on other things but I think the SNP has made the right call to help out those affected. This is an example of the SNP having to follow a course of action to ensure Scots do not suffer as a result of a policy imposed by a Government we didn't vote for.

A lot of the things you have asked about are not under the control of the Scottish Government, so it is a bit unfair to expect the SNP to tackle them. Other things are and if the SNP is not doing well enough they should be, and are, questioned about it in Parliament and in the media.

Everything comes back to control though - having control over major economic policy is the basis for improving society.

Re: Sturgeon

PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:38 am
by Govangirl
Good post, I don't want to get into the independence argument but you seem happy so far with what's been done and that's refreshing . . . very refreshing.

Re: Sturgeon

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 1:43 am
by Govangirl
Hume, can I ask you what you think of Scotland and the controversy around the Glasgow bin Lorry tragedy? I'm appalled (like many of my fellow Scots, home and elsewhere) at the decisions made and the resulting shame of the judicial system and for that matter the police. Nicola cannot lay the blame this time at Westminster's doorstep, this is an indictment of Scottish government. Sorry but I'm overwhelmed.

Re: Sturgeon

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 1:14 pm
by Hume
I know there was an inquiry underway in to the incident you are referring to, which had to be halted, due to, I think one (or more, maybe) of the deceased's family(ies) wanting to prosecute the driver, whereas the Crown had said there would be no prosecution. Is that what you are referring to in terms of controversy and shame on the judicial system? If so I'm not sure if I could give much of an opinion, with not being particularly well versed in the law.

Strange to see this - I was in the Millenium Hotel this morning at 8.30 and thinking about it.

On a more general note, from what I can tell, the SNP are doing a decent job. I'm not going blindly say they are doing everything right just because they represent the best route to Independence (I'm not a robot, as Kezia might suggest :D ). Plenty people will disagree with the SNP on policy and sadly people will disagree with the SNP, just because they are the SNP.

Going back to 2007, even something as simple as changing the name to Scottish Government from Scottish Executive showed an ambition and intent, that Scotland should be governed like other countries and, hopefully eventually, not simply as a region of a political union.

In government you cannot possibly satisfy everyone but the SNP seem to do as good a job as I imagine is possible. Not everything is perfect, it never will be but the SNP seem to reach out to more people than any other party.

They won't be suited to far left socialists or those with hard right wing views but the electorate is probably Normally distributed on the political spectrum and those two groups are at the extremes. Parties with extreme views don't tend to do well.

I think the SNP get the balance about right, a pro business party with a social conscience, which I think is a form of social democracy.

The more powers we have, the better job we, as the electorate in Scotland via out elected Government can do
do of running our country.

Re: Sturgeon

PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:40 pm
by lochend
"At a time when Britain is crying out for a politics of the common good, the SNP stands for a militant politics of sectional advantage. It is rapidly acquiring the characteristics of a political religion, a faith-based movement that vilifies unbelievers and subordinates all other considerations to the attainment of national ‘rapture’ through independence. This sets it apart from other parties, even Plaid Cymru which takes a more pragmatic approach to independence and has already worked as part of a coalition in Cardiff. There are good reasons for people on the left to want a new kind of pluralist politics, but it’s no use pretending that you can pursue that vision with people who aren’t pluralists. Short of a second referendum defeat, the SNP is likely to remain a belligerent and destructive force in British politics. Progressives beware." Quote from the New Statesman. Not necessarily my beliefs, but a bit of balance to Hume's certainties if you have any sense of Britishness. BTW Is Britishness still allowed north of the border?

Re: Sturgeon

PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 5:30 am
by gray_marian
Lochend re 'BTW Is Britishness still allowed north of the border?' Of course it is. We still have a United Kingdom I think that speaks volumes.
Have no wish whatsoever to partake in any kind of discussion regarding SNP as I had my fill all last year. I certainly do not intend to decry Ms Sturgeon or her party each to their own.

Re: Sturgeon

PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:40 am
by lochend
Marian,but do you still feel comfortable having allegiance to the Union Jack? Each to their own is a fundamental right as you say but is there not a certain sense of being bullied by the more extreme Nats?

Re: Sturgeon

PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:55 am
by Hume
I'm not trying to give you any certainties, lochend - only my opinion.

I don't particularly have a problem with the concept of Britishness, in fact I actually think it supersedes or is at least not conditional of this political union in which we live. Perhaps I am being a little naive but if someone can regard themselves as Scottish and British today, then they can still be Scottish and British post Independence. Britain is after all an island and Scotland is on that island.

I don't see Britishness as a nationality but more an identity, something moving political decision making 400 miles north will not necessarily remove.

For instance, the Danes, Swedes and Norwegians don't need to belong to the same State to have a shared identity of being Scandinavian.

Re: Sturgeon

PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 5:45 pm
by lochend
Hume Insisting on moving £24billion of oil revenue north may have a bearing on how British you would be perceived to be!! Of course all the countries you mention are Scandinavian but they do not have a joint means of defence. Ireland is located within what is described as the British isles but they would definitely not like to be described as British!