Independence

[Govangirl]

Baz, a currency union already exists because we are a UNION!!!!!! Scotland are voting whether or not they want to continue that union!!!!!!!

[baz]

:@ Baz, a currency union already exists because we are a UNION!!!!!! Scotland are voting whether or not they want to continue that union!!!!!!!

Currently, there is political, social & fiscal union.
Scotland could be Independent and maintain a fiscal union.
Or not.
Ideally, Scotland should maintain it's own currency, and this may
happen sooner or later.
It is not for Westminster alone, to determine the conditions
of the break-up of that which already exists.

Besides, should the Scottish people resoundingly vote YES, a fiscal
arrangement will be offered to the mutual benefit of all parties concerned.
Until such time as a negation of the fiscal union is passed through Westminster
and written into Law, the body politic is simply making idle threats in order
to intimidate and coerce the electorate.

[bill]

For those who idolise the Govan Legend that is Sir Alex ,take note ..............

"The former manager of Manchester United is against independence and has donated to the Better Together campaign."

The actor Brian Cox was in Corby last week to ask the opinion of members of the Scottish community.As I was in sunny Tenerife I missed my chance to say I am undecided.

[Govangirl]

For those who idolise the Govan Legend that is Sir Alex ,take note ..............

"The former manager of Manchester United is against independence and has donated to the Better Together campaign.".

Well, I for one idolise the Govan Legend. I am very happy to read the above. Gaun yersel, Sir Alex!!!!

[baz]

For those who idolise the Govan Legend that is Sir Alex ,take note ..............
"The former manager of Manchester United is against independence and has donated to the Better Together campaign

Ah, the cult of celebrity.
This has sunk to an unprecedented low level.

The point of Independece is self-determination.
Or.
You could just let someone else tell you what to think, do and vote.
Just as it has been for 300 years

[bill]

You could just let someone else tell you what to think, do and vote.

I'll ask the wife then. Why change 44 years of marriage.

[Govangirl]

When she's finished telling you what to do then can you ask her to let me know?

The point of Independece is self-determination.
Or.
You could just let someone else tell you what to think, do and vote.
Just as it has been for 300 years

Or.
You could just continue churning out old, worn-out cliches

[baz]

You could just continue churning out old, worn-out cliches

There is good reason for clichés, they reflect fundamental truths.

I am curious though, as to the purpose of starting this thread,
other than rolling out the usual rhetoric of the pro-Unionists,
and failing to discuss anything pertinent to the topic.

[tarmmaker]

As I said earlier, the majority aren't bothered to argue as they are happy with the status quo. If the Yes vote want to argue, let them, but why they expect the rest of us to get involved in something we don't want is beyond me.

[Shona]

Salmond's Plan A was for an Independent Scotland to use the euro as it's currency. However, the instability in the euro zone, fate of countries like Ireland and Greece and the unpopularity of the euro in Scotland killed off Plan A. So here we are with Plan B - a currency union with the rest of the UK. In other words, a fiscal and banking union. No way would Salmond be permitted to raise taxes, borrow, spend and run up debt as he pleases as it would affect the stability of the currency, exchange rates, etc. The Bank of England would be in charge.

[Hume]

......I was referring to the two issues in the news this week which have always imho been unexplored properly: the right to EU membership and currency union. Personally, I think there are bigger issues myself but I certainly don't believe that Osborne's speech was 'insulting and demeaning' as Salmond claims. These are issues that need discussing.

Govangirl, these are no more than and attempt to scare people in to voting No and its no surprise the media has reported it in such a way to favour the No campaign.

Thankfully you would also be in the minority here then as more people are either offended or simply don't believe the chancellor as is indicated by the shift to Yes.

I think two of Salmond's key policies – a currency union and automatic membership of the EU - have been blown out the water and his childish response when this has been pointed out is scary. It's like he refuses to engage on the really serious issues - is that not worrying?

I think that's pretty naïve then if you think they have been blown out the water. Scotland is in the EU now and the way will be paved for it to continue so following a Yes vote.

As a resident of England you should be very worried about the chancellor ruling out a currency union as it is Sterling itself that would suffer on the basis a currency is only as strong as the assets (and liabilities) that back it up.

The reality is, post Yes, both parties will negotiate what is best for the parts they represent and if that happens to the a currency union then it will happen.

Edit: I think you'll also find its David Cameron who refuses to debate.

[Hume]

Salmond's Plan A was for an Independent Scotland to use the euro as it's currency. However, the instability in the euro zone, fate of countries like Ireland and Greece and the unpopularity of the euro in Scotland killed off Plan A. So here we are with Plan B - a currency union with the rest of the UK. In other words, a fiscal and banking union. No way would Salmond be permitted to raise taxes, borrow, spend and run up debt as he pleases as it would affect the stability of the currency, exchange rates, etc. The Bank of England would be in charge.

I agree with you on the Euro Shona, there are just far too many countries using it and too much divergence in those individual economies. I wish I could dig out an essay I wrote around 1999 - I have a feeling I might have predicted the Euro crisis a decade before it happened. I recall arguing it would not work as the ECB would find it impossible to set Monetary Policy, which would be beneficial to the entire zone on the basis the BoE was unable to set an interest rate that was often not beneficial to both London and Liverpool.

That is probably why I would like to see Scotland move to our own currency in the second or third term after Independence.

Your other point assumes Alex Salmond will be the FM/PM of Scotland, which of course he might not be. Besides, we can't really do much of those things at present, so it seems a strange point to argue for No on.

[Hume]

My only links to Scotland are my Father who was a son of the Wee Toon, so I would not have the impudence to try to sway my Scottish friends on how to vote in the forthgcoming election but I must admit that the thought of being abandoned to a permanent Torey Government south of the border terrifies me! They will almost certainly get the boot at the next election but if you lot give it the swerve they will be in power down here forever!

lochend, Scotland becoming independent does not really influence that though. You, in the north east on England, largely get the government that England votes for. Only twice in the semi recent past, post WW2 anyway, have the MPs elected in Scotland impacted on the formation of a WM government. Think that was in 1964 and 1974. Voting Labour in Scotland does not prevent Tory governments.

[baz]

As I said earlier, the majority aren't bothered to argue as they are happy with the status quo.

A rather bold and sweeping statement.
The overwhelming "majority" voted for the SNP.
Clearly, they were not "happy with the status quo".
Is it really necessary to "argue", and not discuss?

Salmond's Plan A .....
Salmond be permitted .....

Independence is not about Alex Salmond, he is simply the current leader of the SNP.
Although it is clear he is a highly adept politician, this is portrayed across the media
as a means by which to demonise the man, and the Independence campaign.
We should hope all future First Ministers are as adept.
Independence is more than a personality contest.

A Yes vote is for Independence .... not Alex Salmond, and not the SNP

The Bank of England would be in charge.

As indeed, it is currently.
An unelected, non-representative, nationally owned (yet not controlled) institution, which has
a monopoly in the manipulation of the national currency, and has independent control of the country's
monetary policy, at the dictate of The Court of Directors who serve the private banking system,
as they have since the Bank was established.
It is the Banker's Bank.

[tarmmaker]

So stuff it under the mattress.