Decorum

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Decorum

Postby gray_marian » Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:22 am

Rest In Peace Baroness Thatcher.
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Re: Decorum

Postby four eyes » Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:48 pm

gray_marian wrote:Rest In Peace Baroness Thatcher.

WTF! dont you know all pleasantries have been suspended,its Thatcher you know!May she burn in hell.
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Re: Decorum

Postby Crowth » Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:36 am

Well said, Marian. It's my firm belief that while MT did cause hardship to individuals (name me a PM who didn't), overall she did the country good and was not at all self serving, as has been the case since 1997.

Four eyes - I totally respect your right to be vulgar in public but I believe a thread on the forum has already been hijacked by that sort of thing and you have already made your views known there. PLEASE, allow those of us who are not filled with hatred for the Iron Lady and also still have respect for the recently deceased to keep this tiny corner of the forum vitriol free.

With sincere appreciation.
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Re: Decorum

Postby LANDROVER ROGER » Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:48 am

Welll said Crowth and Marian.
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Re: Decorum

Postby gizmo » Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:39 pm

Good post Crowth. I was beginning to believe common decency was a thing of the past. :(
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Re: Decorum

Postby giantredwood » Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:15 pm

Crowth wrote:Well said, Marian. It's my firm belief that while MT did cause hardship to individuals (name me a PM who didn't), overall she did the country good and was not at all self serving, as has been the case since 1997.

Four eyes - I totally respect your right to be vulgar in public but I believe a thread on the forum has already been hijacked by that sort of thing and you have already made your views known there. PLEASE, allow those of us who are not filled with hatred for the Iron Lady and also still have respect for the recently deceased to keep this tiny corner of the forum vitriol free.

With sincere appreciation.


I fully agree Crowth. We all have our opinions but there is no need for some of the ignorant drivel that goes along with a lot of comments from her detractors. My opinion is that she was exactly what the country needed at the time to get it back on it's feet. She had tough decisions to make and very much like now with all the austerity measures, people will be hurt to a greater or lesser degree but these decisions had to be made and she made them and stuck to them. You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs.
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Re: Decorum

Postby lochend » Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:40 pm

I agree that certain restraint should be observed when any old lady dies, however controversial she has been in her earlier life.The suggestion that she pulled the country up by it's bootstraps must be viewed against who's bootstraps she was pulling.It was obvious to anyone that the trade union leaders were execising too much power and that situation needed addressing.Whether the way to address that was to completely decimate a whole industry with the devastation that has caused to huge swathes of the UK.I have just returned from a visit to Cardiff docks and was shown the docks where millions of tons of Welsh coal used to be exported annually,all now disused.Ironically I was also shown the dock where coal is now imported! Whilst all this damage was being done to the hopes and aspirations of generations of working people the seeds of greed where being sown which have led to the disgraceful avarice and performance of the modern banking industry.Change was needed but If it had been applied across the whole spread of the population Mrs Thatchers legacy would have been more generally recognised!
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Re: Decorum

Postby odds » Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:31 pm

giantredwood wrote: She had tough decisions to make and very much like now with all the austerity measures, people will be hurt to a greater or lesser degree but these decisions had to be made and she made them and stuck to them. You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs.


The problem being that the working class were not invited to dinner !!!

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Re: Decorum

Postby weetoonplodder » Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:36 am

Now before we start, im not saying that im a raving Thatcherite by any means of the imagination or Labour loony either and its all too easy for us to lambast the dead, but I think we need to look closer at the changes that happened under her premiership some good and some bad and the changes that have followed.

It wasn't Thatcher that was responsible for the mounting car industry and trade related strikes that were crippling the country before she came to power,
It wasn't Thatcher that was responsible for 10ft high piles of rubbish on the city streets causing rodent infestation problems in 1977 when we were supposed to be a proud united nation celebrating the Jubilee
It wasn't Thatcher that was responsible for the mounting piles of unburied corpses due to the grave diggers strikes in Liverpool, London and Manchester
It wasn't Thatcher that was responsible for the continuing striking of the countries train drivers and nursing staff, potentially putting lives at risk
It wasn't Thatcher that was responsible for all of us having to hurry home nearly every night for months and months and months to cook and wash before the lights went out due to the huge power shortages that we suffered

Oh what short memories we all have!

Yes she came to power and made changes that not all agreed with, but it is fair to say that before she did come to power we were the poor and sick man of Europe, a position that really we should not have been in considering that we as a united nation had solely stood up and defended the rest of the world for a long time form a Nazi tyrant and his American semi pro Nazi supporters (AKA Joseph Kennedy who wanted Britain to bow down to Germany) who were hell bent on world supremacy in one form or another, a battle that with the eventual help of others we ultimately won. The truth of the matter is that when Thatcher took over we were a country that even 34 years after the War had ended, was still trying to rebuild not just its own country, but other countries devastated by the war, while still paying off her own debts for keeping hundreds of millions around the world free from Nazism and other forms of dictatorship.

Thatcher did what she had to do to get the country moving, that all, yes there was the miners strike, but what had happened in the 70's was that they were holding the whole country to ransom and she could see they were trying it on again and she just wasn't having any of it, that's all, just imagine where we would have been if she had given in, we would have been cowing down to that balding heeded gingernuted B*****D Scargill and could easily have been becoming the next state of the communist USSR if he had had his way.

There was the Falklands War, and yes it probably was her finest hour, but not just her's it was Britains finest hour since 2nd Sept 1945, but ultimately it was her that made it happen, just remember she refused to bow down, not just to the Agrie Bargies but to Regan and that French twat Mitterrand, who else do u think would have threatened to park a nuclear weapon up the arse of Agrie Bargies if the Yanks and the Frogs didnt bugger of to where they came from.

The miners cant shout too much about the strikes and the closure of the pits, there is a lot of them out there that didn't do too bad out of it, a lot got their coalboard houses for less than what people were paying for their discounted council houses, they were being handed redundancy packages of £30-£50,000 in 1983 when the UK average wage was only £10-£12,000. Today some of them are back sitting in houses worth £200,000+, have found new well paid jobs in clean and healthy environments, they are still alive and kicking where if they had still been down the pit, would have been either deed by now or would have been pulling an oxygen bottle behind them

Then we have the Poll Tax, yes I totally agree she cocked up there, I myself even refused to pay that until the point where I was being very seriously threatened with a court summons for failure to pay and had debt recovery agents chasing me, She alienated most of Scotland and the North of England with that one, but surprisingly enough it couldn't have been that bad because the Conservatives did get back in for 4th term.

She gave a lot of us and our parents and grandparents the chance to get on the property ladder, a chance that a lot would never have had, she allowed us the chance to invest in large public companies that made a lot normal working class people a lot of money that they would never have had.

She was probably at least 50% responsible for the ending of the cold war, the fall of Communism and the taking down of the Berlin Wall with the other parties taking up the remaining 40 odd% of the responsibility between them, yes it probably would have eventually happened but it might have taken another 2 or 3 or 4 years before it happened, but she was the catalyst.

What have we had since she left, we have had 2 gulf wars, where as if she had been in power during the first one, it would only have ended when allied forced reached Baghdad and Saddam had been overthrown, not just stopped when they push Iraqi forces back over the border for them to come back and have another go 11 years later in a war that we were taken into illegally by a total self righteous B*****D who has continually lied about his involvement in a lot of things that happened to descent people, I wonder what the Kelly families views would be on the fact that if Thatcher had been in power during the first conflict, that there might never have been another and therefore no supposed WMD.

And anyway, what about that self righteous B*****D, what did he do for us with his 10 years in office, not a lot, he got us in to a war that's costing us £billions if not 100's of £billions of public money that could be spent here in the UK, he allowed that free-loading wife of his to influence him to sign us up for human rights bills that means we cant even throw foreign scum out of our own country, he gave up the reduced European rebate that Thatcher fought so hard to get, he allowed his successor and other eejit we had as a PM to sell of £billions of our gold reserves for peanuts, and when he wasn't allowing things like that to happen, he was either sucking up to that gung ho lying P***K Bush on the other side of the pond hoping to be the senator of Americas 51st and newest state (AKA Bitain) or trying to convince Europe that he should be the first president of the new united states of Europe. Every thing he did in office and has done since he left has been for nobodies benefit but his own, if there wasn't money in it for him and his wife then he wasn't interested in any of it for the rest of us.

I think its only fair to say that when did you ever see Dennis Thatcher in the limelight much or hear of him getting freebies, when did you ever hear of Norma Major getting freebies and to be fair to our other famous Scots PM, when did you ever here much of Sarah Brown getting freebies? The answer to that question is no u didn't or if they did it was very hush hush, but Blair and wife were as blatant as hell about it and continue to be so.

But to rap this whole thing up, no matter what any of us think about Margaret Thatcher, one thing is for sure, she will not be forgotten by any of us or the rest of the world for a long time, she was one of the most influential political figures the world has ever seen for of the last 100 years and with the exception of the Queen and Diana is probably the most prominent woman the world has ever seen in the last 100 years. I think we should be quite proud that we probably have probably the top 3 most prominent women the world has ever seen for the last 100 odd years from our little country, what other country can claim that?

Oh I forgot. yeah the yanks have got Oprah for a start, what has she done to change the world, not an F***ing!
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Re: Decorum

Postby giantredwood » Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:59 am

weetoonplodder wrote:
It wasn't Thatcher that was responsible for the mounting car industry and trade related strikes that were crippling the country before she came to power,
It wasn't Thatcher that was responsible for 10ft high piles of rubbish on the city streets causing rodent infestation problems in 1977 when we were supposed to be a proud united nation celebrating the Jubilee
It wasn't Thatcher that was responsible for the mounting piles of unburied corpses due to the grave diggers strikes in Liverpool, London and Manchester
It wasn't Thatcher that was responsible for the continuing striking of the countries train drivers and nursing staff, potentially putting lives at risk
It wasn't Thatcher that was responsible for all of us having to hurry home nearly every night for months and months and months to cook and wash before the lights went out due to the huge power shortages that we suffered



Exactly, I was still in school in the late seventies and wasn't particularly interested in politics but I do remember the evening news programmes on TV consisting of almost nothing else but the latest strike or threats of strikes, unions demanding huge unjustifiable pay rises and their ranting leaders (Scargill, McGahey etc) stirring up mob rule and overwhelming the weak Labour govt of the time. I also remember being well pleased at being sent home from school as the teachers had gone on strike and we were on a three day school week.

With hindsight I think this was a time of major transition when our industries were no longer competing with each other in the UK but were having to compete on a more global scale with industry in Germany, Japan,Korea etc and the UK simply wasn't at the races with higher wage costs and working (if they were working) practices. The demise of a lot of our heavy industry was probably inevitable and the ridiculous demands of the aforementioned union dinosaurs only accelerated that outcome. They did more damage to this country than MT ever did and something or someone had to wrest back control to the government instead of the unions running the country further into the ground.

On top of all this the country was broke and we had the sight of our Exchequer running, cap in hand, to the IMF for more loans to keep us afloat. What was so good about Britain before the Conservatives and MT came to be DEMOCRATICALLY elected in a landslide victory? We needed a strong leader who would rightly or wrongly choose their path and stick to it and see it through. It was always going to be messy at times but it had to be done.
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Re: Decorum

Postby smiles » Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:55 pm

You have to earn respect during your life to be shown it after. Just because someone dies doesn't mean you have to respect them. Some of you want to go to villages and towns throughout Scotland ruined by Thatcher and the Tories. Many pro Thatcher comments I suspect only look after number one which in essence is the Tory party. Short memories.
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Re: Decorum

Postby lochend » Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:10 pm

Weetoonplodder,You say you are not a raging thatcherite? I wouldn't like to meet a raving Thatcherite then if they are more swivel eyed than you! I agree that The likes of Scargill and McGahey and others of their ilk had hijacked the trade union movement but Thatcher would have deserved more retrospective respect if she had addressed some of the excessess further up the food chain.This was the lady who encouraged greed and selfishness,"there is no such thing as society" remember? Hers was the era of the massive bank bonuses where literally hundreds of bank functionaries qualified for huge bonuses, so big that they could buy Porsches and spend huge amounts on Krystal champagne to celebrate.Thatcher endorsed Sir Keith Joseph's ideas of monetarism where the entrepeneurs would make the vast profits, and wealth would trickle down to us unworthies huddled below their tables.What actually happened was that they became very efficient in preventing any crumbs leaving their table including paying their taxes through accounts in the Windward islands. As for the miners making huge fortunes out of being able to buy their housed cheap,how can you buy your house when you don't have the prospects of a decent job or wage? I worked in the steel industry and saw 8500 men made reduntant with the closure of steel making at the Shotton steelworks.The rationale was that all the steel that Shotton could make would be made at Ravenscraig! What happened to that idea? Shotton is now a ghost town,what is left of the steel plant is owned by an Indian company and it employs about 400 people.Whe I was their there were 14000! I hear Cameron saying Mrs Thatcher put the great back into Britain,tell that to my grandchildren who will soon be on the job market!
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Re: Decorum

Postby gray_marian » Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:30 pm

Having initiated this post I feel obliged to answer Smiles and Lochend.The object of the exercise is to pay my respects to
Mrs Thatcher in a calm and dignified manner, unlike the scathing mentality on the other thread on the forum.
I have no wish to enforce my political views on anyone,......each to their own, and yes Smiles I agree some of the ex mining
area's are depressing............still! You too Lochend, it's catastrophe when any huge industry closes down, my Grandfather was a miner in the lead up to the great depression, after that he gathered his wit's moved away and started again. He encouraged my Father to have a trade and diversify if need be.
This grounding has stood me in good stead, and my family have been taught to adapt also. No job is for life, we have to move on.
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Re: Decorum

Postby lochend » Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:21 pm

G.M.That was very good advice from your grand father and indeed it was a good idea to encourage a young person to get a trade.When I started work for the British Steel Corporation and later the Shell Oil Company both had extensive well equipped apprentice departments with upwards of 30 boys being taken on each year and being taught various crafts associated with the particular industries along with one day a week day release at a tech college.This system was established throughout other industries and receive some subsidy from central government.These schools no linger exist since tory governments withdrew support.Now they have the nerve to claim that there are not enough skilled people available! If you know of any apprentice opportunities for young people I think you should let us know!
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Re: Decorum

Postby smiles » Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:41 am

Says it all

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scott ... th-1826513

Out of interest, for all you pro Thatcher lovers are you

a) English
b) Relatively well off
c) Both of the above?

:-)
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