The Kintyre Forum

Do you agree that Scotland should remain part of the United Kingdom?

Bit of an ambigous question. Even if Scotland get independence it will still remain part of the UK or are there plans to dig a big river at Hadrian's Wall to actually separate the countries?

A shed will be erected to serve as a customs post,the border its self will be patrolled by Poles on minimum wage,as their far cheaper than other workers and can be billeted in ex army tents to save money.The Salmon will only be glimpsed as his motorcade roars past on its way to another EU type meeting.The rest of you will be homeless,jobless and living or existing in a pre Neanderthal family group somewhere east of the Campsie Hills.Good luck and thank god i have the wherewithal to flee the country before the madness begins.

ultraviolet wrote:Bit of an ambigous question. Even if Scotland get independence it will still remain part of the UK or are there plans to dig a big river at Hadrian's Wall to actually separate the countries?

Apologies Ultraviolet, don't mean to be too much of a pedant, however you are incorrect.

The United Kingdom is a State. If Scotland voted for independence, we would no longer be a part of that State. We would still remain part of the island called "Great Britain", however we would no longer be part of the UK. Equally (like the Republic of Ireland) we would still be part of "The British Isles" - unless of course we decided to dig the trench and tow ourselves to the Mediterranean for some better weather.

I assume that, after a vote in favour of independence, the UK would be forced to change it's official name FROM the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland TO the United Kingdom of England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

Tom, i'm not sure what prompted your poll but it may well have been reports in the last couple of days that the question, as proposed by the SNP i.e. Do you agree that Scotland should become and independent country? (or very similar) is unfair / loaded / misleading.

I happen to agree with those findings, and thought so from the beginning.

The word 'agree' should not appear in the question as it is putting forward the notion that it should - which is of course the debate.

The question should however refer to the proposed new position, rather than keeping the current one and should be along the lines of:

Do you think Scotland should become an independent country?
Do you believe Scotland should become an independent country?
Do you want Scotland to become an independent country?

Sheik, taking your point about names of new entities a bit further - how about us being know as the Former United Kingdom Republic of Scotland?

It not too much of a leap as I'm sure we have been referred to as the FUKRS north of the border for quite some time anyway?

Hume wrote:Sheik, taking your point about names of new entities a bit further - how about us being know as the Former United Kingdom Republic of Scotland?

It not too much of a leap as I'm sure we have been referred to as the FUKRS north of the border for quite some time anyway?

I wish you would post more Hume, always enjoy your posts and this made me laugh out loud.

Cheers ScD, that wee bit at the end was of course for a laugh - in hindsight it could maybe have done with a smilie just to be sure though

...just heard the first commentator on the the radio say that "...not sure that we'll do it in 2014 but I'd like to see independence for Scotland in my lifetime."

I thought 2014 was to be the final and decisive vote that all sides would abide by ?!

Tom - there will be 35 years between the previous referendum and the next one. I'm guessing 35 years is considered a 'generation' in political terms. Who knows what the political landscape will be like in another 35 years however being the whipper-snappers we are, you and I will hopefully still be here if there's another one.

If it's a YES vote in 2014 it's highly unlikely there would be a referendum in 2049 to rejoin the UK. Of the 40 or so countries who have become independent since our last referendum in 1979 (as far as I'm aware) none of them have decided to go back to how they were previously.

Whatever anyone's politics, I think that tells it's own story.

I agree with your 'generation' assumption Sheik, although logically any future elected govenment with a manifesto commitment to offer a referendum in independence would be entitled to bring that before Parliament.

So, if its no in 2014, a Tory victory at UK GE 2015 leading to another SNP victory at Holyrood in 2016(?), we cold legitimately have another independence referendum in say 2019.

The 1979 referendum was on implementing a Scottish Parliament, not on independence and despite a majority in favour, it was not delivered due to some manipulation of the conditions by the UK Govt. Basically, we were not getting it no matter what!

So as Thatcherism took hold, Scottish nationalism fell off the radar as Sctoland turned in vain to Labour to try an oppose the Tories.

I can't see that happening to anywhere near the same extent again should it be a no vote in 2014 and whilst the SNP may be damaged by that, the quest for independence is now not going to go away. Nor can I see Scotland turning to a Labour party, which is in the impossible position of trying to appeal to both 'middle England', in order to wrestle seats from the tories, and its traditional working class support, that it has neglected so badly since 1997.

So, whilst those digning the referendum agreement have agreed to respect the outcome, whatever happens in two years, its not necessarily for ever

Hume wrote:Tom, i'm not sure what prompted your poll but it may well have been reports in the last couple of days that the question, as proposed by the SNP i.e. Do you agree that Scotland should become and independent country? (or very similar) is unfair / loaded / misleading.

I happen to agree with those findings, and thought so from the beginning.

The word 'agree' should not appear in the question as it is putting forward the notion that it should - which is of course the debate.

The question should however refer to the proposed new position, rather than keeping the current one and should be along the lines of:

Do you think Scotland should become an independent country?
Do you believe Scotland should become an independent country?
Do you want Scotland to become an independent country?

The Electoral Commission should have just read the KF back in October !

Question assessment

The Commission was asked to test the following question by the Scottish Government:

“Do you agree that Scotland should be an independent country? Yes/No”

The Commission’s established question assessment process involved talking to people across Scotland, asking for advice from accessibility and plain language experts, and writing to people and organisations, including the main political parties represented in the Scottish Parliament and campaigners to seek their views.

We found that the language in the proposed question is clear, simple and easy to understand. However, we also concluded that the words ‘Do you agree’ potentially encouraged people to vote ‘yes’ and should be replaced by more neutral wording.

The Electoral Commission recommends the question should be altered to:

“Should Scotland be an independent country? Yes / No”

http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/news-and-media/news-releases/electoral-commission-media-centre/news-releases-referendums/electoral-commission-publishes-its-assessment-of-scottish-independence-referendum-question-and-its-advice-on-campaign-spending-limits