English more in favour of Independence than Scots

[Tom B]

Saw on the news that in a survey it's said that English people are now more in favour of independence for Scotland than Scottish people.

Have the English really reached the point where they now think "well if you think you're getting such a bad deal in the Union, well stuff you, we don't want you either!" ?

I am personally upset if this is really the view of many English people. I hope it's not.

Two more years of this uncertainty and who knows where public opinion will have moved to on both sides of the border. Do we really need to wait for 700 years since Bannockburn, the Ryder Cup and the 2014 Commonwealth Games?

I think we need a speedy referendum (this year) and to move on (in whatever direction) - otherwise the Scottish independence question + Scotland becomes a bad joke.

[odds]

Saw on the news that in a survey it's said that English people are now more in favour of independence for Scotland than Scottish people.

What survey was that , out of the 64 million population, how many did this 'survey' ask for opinions ?

Have the English really reached the point where they now think "well if you think you're getting such a bad deal in the Union, well stuff you, we don't want you either!" ?

We can't even look after ourselves thanks to the absolutely ridiculous EU regs that they keep bringing out, personally I'd just wish we could say F*** You ... we'll look after ourselves as a UK and stuff all your regs and regulations from Brussels and Switzerland or wherever you dream up these ideals from.

I am personally upset if this is really the view of many English people. I hope it's not.

It's the view of the people that ran the article, who probably ran down the road and asked a couple of hundred shoppers, why on earth this would bother any normal working person in England is beyond me.

So how many people do you think they interviewed in this 'survey' ? Probably some students stood in a shopping arcade on a Saturday afternoon asking random shoppers who hadn't a clue what they were on about ....... but it's a survey, so must be true eh

[Sheik Yir Erse]

What survey was that , out of the 64 million population, how many did this 'survey' ask for opinions ?

Survey was conducted for Associated Newspapers by Survation. Standard survey numbers of around 1,000 people in Scotland and 1,000 people in England.

You can find the results here:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... tland.html

[Martin]

It doesn't matter what the English think, we have no-one who will listen to us, nobody who will stand up for us. It's not like we have our own dedicated parliament, assembly or glorified county council.
For instance, the union has been a very bad joke since three countries got free prescriptions and one didn't. Either we're "all in this together" or let's bring an end to it as soon as possible.

[gizmo]

Apparently ensuring people who have to pay for prescriptions actually pays cost a hell of a lot more than giving everyone free pescriptions. Instead of wingeing about everyone else getting freebies, why not ask your MPs why they are not learning from the Jocks.

[Martin]

Gizmo, I agree, we should be learning from you lot. Setting up an English parliament and giving us a say in what we want. However, it doesn't matter what the English think, nobody will listen. Methinks you've missed the point.
I will support any party that gives the English a say in our own country, I don't care if that happens to be the B.N.P. or whatever. We have no voice of our own in this so-called union. If you don't like that, sorry, but it's the truth.

[gizmo]

I got your point first time Martin. However I would suggest you really need regional parliamnts in England to counter-balance the disproportionate amount of money spent in the South-East.
The BNP I believe are pro union, you really need to look at the English Defence League, screwballs, but at least Pro England.

[Martin]

I've looked deeply into the E.D.L, very deeply, I only used the B.N.P. as I hoped someone would see it and cry, "Racsist Pig", which is normally what happens when the flag of St. George is flown as anything other than a sporting emblem, at least you are allowed to fly your national flag with pride.
I've always been for the union and I agree about the South East.
Going outside to take some gulps of fresh air now.

[The Insider]

This IS an interesting thread guys.

I for one DO NOT want to see us split from the rest of the UK, it's unthinkable nonsene, all we really need is a bit more say on how we deal with things closer to home.

The BIGGER problem is the constant and NEVED ENDING meddling of Brussels.

I have lived in England for almost thirty years and people here are sick to the back teeth of Eurocrats telling them what they can and cannot do in their own country and I fully agree with them.

Now we have "Fat Head" Salmond with his never ending babble about Scottish Independance, he's power mad, simple as.

People in England have enough going on with their own culture being eroded away at an alarming rate, now "Fat Head" has stuck his big fat head and gob above the parapet and people here are saying "Ok, if thats what you want then get on with it and see how it works out, but don't come back and ask to be part of the union if it fails"

I'm sick of listening to Salmond, people here are sick of seeing him on their TV's, lets have a vote asap and put it, and him, to bed.

End of.

TI

[Sheik Yir Erse]

One of the key aspects of this is a fear of the unknown.

There's been a very poor debate to date, and generally the population of ALL countries in the UK are ill-informed as to possible outcomes. Tom B raised a point on another thread about who decides the oil split - all very relevant. What happens to the Armed Forces, the BBC, Faslane, etc....?

With regards to fear of the unknown - over 30 new countries have been created in the last 20 years alone. There is therefore a well trodden road to independence. There will be lots of lessons learned from these previous ventures, which will include guidelines on oil distribution, broadcasters, armed forces, costs, etc.

Crucially, of these 30+ new countries, the only one I can think of 're-uniting' was Germany, but that's a slightly different comparison.

I welcome an informed debate. The current crop of "Don't Know's" will decide the outcome, and let's hope they arrive at an opinion based on knowledge and understanding as opposed to hatred and ignorance.

[Hume]

I too look forward to an informed debate, which is exactly why there should not be a snap referendum. It is clearly a very important decision for a lot of people. At least by holding it in 2014 it leaves plenty of time for all the important issues to be addressed. Meanwhile we are hearing from supporters of the union the uncertainly is damaging Scotland, albeit no evidence is forthcoming. That’s fine for the written press to report as they are not prevented from having political allegiances but the BBC etc. really should be taken to task over their obviously biased reporting considering the laws in place to prevent such.

I believe there is a television debate tomorrow night, althoghh I'm not sure exactly what the format or agenda is or who is taking part.

Watching Newsnight last night, John Redwood, who despite stating his support of the union seemed almost resigned to the inevitability of Scottish independence, made the point that presumably the unionist parties want an early referendum as it gives them a better chance of winning it, with the same being true of the SNP’s reason for holding it in the second half of the parliamentary term. Aside from the fact this was the SNP’s intention prior to winning a majority in May 2011, something which no unionists seemed to have a problem with at the time, surely we can all agree that it is better to allow time to be in possession of all the facts before making such an important decision?

Is it not then the case the unionists are fearful of the electorate becoming so well informed that independence is an obvious choice?

I’ve yet to hear one credible argument for Scotland remaining part of the UK. You have to ask, if we are such a burden to the rest of the UK, then why would politicians from London do everything in their power to keep Scotland as part of it? I would be genuinely interested to hear someone put forward a decent case to retain the present set up and say hand on heart that they believe our interests are better served by London than they would be from an independent Scottish Government in Edinburgh, which has no interest other than doing what is best for Scotland.

Can anyone really say the political system in the UK works to Scotland’s advantage considering we returned a single Tory MP in 2010?

I have lived in England for almost thirty years and people here are sick to the back teeth of Eurocrats telling them what they can and cannot do in their own country and I fully agree with them.

I for one DO NOT want to see us split from the rest of the UK, it's unthinkable nonsene....

You don't get irony do you? Do you fancy elaborating on why you do not want us to become independent?

Martin, I don't think you understand devolution. If Scotland wants to offer free prescriptions, it can. Its a devolved matter. The fact it is a headline grabber has been very good tactics by the SNP. There will be money spent on things in England that we don't get here, its just that they are likely less appealing to the public or perhaps its just being wasted?

[Tom B]

I’ve yet to hear one credible argument for Scotland remaining part of the UK.

I'd rather have the respect, trust and friendship of the people I know (and don't know) south of the border than all the oil in the north sea

[Sheik Yir Erse]

I'd rather have the respect, trust and friendship of the people I know (and don't know) south of the border than all the oil in the north sea

Tom - I'm keen to understand why you believe that being a citizen in an independent nation will lead others to show less respect, trust and friendship towards you? Do you afford your friends in Dublin less trust, respect and friendship than your friends in Belfast?

[Hume]

That's an interesting post Tom. Firstly, are the two really mutually exclusive? Would you really lose the respect, trust and friendship of those down south is Scotland was independent? I'd say anyone who withdraws their 'friendship' based on whether Scotland is in or out of the union has a rather stange view of what friendship is.

I take the opposite view, certainly in tems of trust and respect. The relationship is very flawed and complex at present and I think it would become much simpler if Scotland was independent. Do you not think there would be more respect for us if we were standing on our own two feet?

Last I heard an independently governed Scotland would still be part of the British Isles, so its not as if we are going anywhere and a lot will not change. Importantly for me though will be that Scotland would have greater responsibility for itself.

[Tom B]

Tom - I'm keen to understand why you believe that being a citizen in an independent nation will lead others to show less respect, trust and friendship towards you? Do you afford your friends in Dublin less trust, respect and friendship than your friends in Belfast?

It's not the end game of being independent that would result in the loss of these things. It's the act of getting there where we remove 80 - 90% of the oil revenues from the rest of the UK, resulting in a hugely wealthy Scotland of 5 million, and a much poorer legacy UK. My understanding is that oil industry was developed by the UK, and I think we would be despised for the source of our riches, if we were to be awarded all the oil money.