Scottish vote

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If the referendum for an Independent Scotland was tomorrow I'd vote.....

Poll ended at Mon Oct 31, 2011 7:00 pm

NO - it's fine the way it is
12
38%
'Devo Max' - more power to the Scottish Parliament, but leave defence and the pound to Westminster, and we'll stay part of the UK
8
25%
FREEDOM! - let's leave the UK and go it alone
12
38%
 
Total votes : 32

Scottish vote

Postby Tom B » Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:00 pm

If the referendum for an Independent Scotland was tomorrow I'd vote for.....
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Re: Scottish vote

Postby Hume » Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:20 pm

Damn, I didn't vote in this :lol:

Would have been interesting with a straight Yes or No without the middle option. Its those 20-25% in the middle that will determine the result.
Should Scotland be an Independent country?

Yes, I believe Scotland is a country and should therefore govern itself.
No, Scotland is not a country it is simply part of the UK and should therefore be governed from London.
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Re: Scottish vote

Postby bill » Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:42 pm

Well there's your answer Hume, on the straight yes/no vote..... 65% NO
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Re: Scottish vote

Postby Hume » Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:14 pm

Sorry bill, didn't see this, just been trawling though loads of e-mails after returning to work.

Very convincing yes, perhaps there is no need to hold a referendum now? Of course, was this limited to those who will be allowed to vote in the real one?

I thought it would be interesting to see a straight Yes / No question. However, I do feel there are a lot of people who if presented with a scale of Independence (1) and the Status Quo (5) would be a 2, 3 or 4 at present.

Whilst I can see there potentially being multiple question, it would be a mistake to have multiple answers as the result could be interpreted in many ways.

I'm encouraged by the level of support for Independence at present, primarily as I think it can only grow. If you support Independence now, you are not likely to change that view and I think there are a lot of undecided people who will come down on the side of Independence and maybe even some who are against it for now who can be persuaded. That will come from being presented with something positive to vote for.

A lot is being made of middle ground options at the moment such as 'Devo Max'. The major flaw with that is that monetary policy and fiscal policy need to be integrated and we need control of both.

Out of interest bill, I'm assuing you voted No so would you like to share your reasons, particularly why you think it is of benefit to Scotland to be governed from London?
Should Scotland be an Independent country?

Yes, I believe Scotland is a country and should therefore govern itself.
No, Scotland is not a country it is simply part of the UK and should therefore be governed from London.
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Re: Scottish vote

Postby Sheik Yir Erse » Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:35 pm

Interesting to see the findings on here, almost identical to a recent public poll where those in favour of independence were in the lead for the first time in a long time.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/poli ... -1.1121712
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Re: Scottish vote

Postby bill » Tue Nov 15, 2011 4:11 pm

Hume wrote:
Out of interest bill, I'm assuing you voted No so would you like to share your reasons, particularly why you think it is of benefit to Scotland to be governed from London?


Hume,do not know why you would assume that. :?
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Re: Scottish vote

Postby Hume » Tue Nov 15, 2011 6:10 pm

bill wrote:
Hume,do not know why you would assume that. :?


I'm sorry if I assumed wrongly. I just thought your post was more in keeping with that of someone who was pleased to see the result of the poll. I based my assumption on:

a) the fact you posted at all, bearing in mind the poll result
b) the emphasis placed on the word NO in capitals

As I say, if I assumed wrongly, I'm sorry.
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Re: Scottish vote

Postby Sheik Yir Erse » Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:33 am

I think Hume is correct - it's the middle ground that will determine the outcome.

I'd prefer to see a simple Yes/No question. You either want Independence or you don't - the middle ground continues to muddy the water. Additional powers have already been devolved during the short lifetime of the Parliament, therefore you could assume that Devo Max could happen without having to go to the hassle of a referendum.

The other problem I have with Devo Max option is that there will be so many matters which remain reserved it will continue to cause friction between Holyrood and Westminster. For example let's say Devo Max proposes 10 additional areas are devolved - 5 of them I like the idea of, and the other 5 I couldn't care less about. However there are 3 other areas that I *DO* want to see devolved - but they don't seem to be up for discussion. Hmmmm - I'm really not sure what to vote for now :-?

For me it's a simple yes/no, and is probably a once in a lifetime vote for many people. Let both sides put their cases forward and let the electorate decide.

We've led the world for hundreds of years, it's time to decide if we want to lead ourselves.

(I might Copyright that and send it to Alex Salmond!)
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Re: Scottish vote

Postby weetoonboy » Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:13 pm

Late to this post.

What I dont understand about the Independence referendum is why there is no Brussels question? Seems the nationalists want to give up a central government for for a bigger faceless central government.


Does anyone really understand what they're voting on yet? Other than some Braveheart type romanticism.
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Re: Scottish vote

Postby Hume » Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:04 am

Sheik Yir Erse wrote:Additional powers have already been devolved during the short lifetime of the Parliament, therefore you could assume that Devo Max could happen without having to go to the hassle of a referendum.


That's an interesting point, I've not really thought about that. I suppopse the main objection to that would be a bit like the situation with the EU, where in the 70's people voted for the Common Market to facilitate better trade throught Europe but now it is something different and without trying to sound like Nigel Farage, no-one voted for that. In the late 90's people voted for a Scottish Parliament with some powers, but not necessarily 'Devo Max'


Sheik Yir Erse wrote:We've led the world for hundreds of years, it's time to decide if we want to lead ourselves.

(I might Copyright that and send it to Alex Salmond!)


If you remove the words 'decide if we want to', he might use it!


weetoonboy wrote:What I dont understand about the Independence referendum is why there is no Brussels question? Seems the nationalists want to give up a central government for for a bigger faceless central government.


You mean whether an Independent Scotland should be in the EU? I can't agree a question on that should be held at the same time as a referendum on Independence. That is a question for post Independence. The SNP are in favour of the EU, but perhaps an anti EU party will emerge in post Independence?

I think you (maybe it wasn't) posted somewhere else about Salmond wanting to 'jump in to bed eith the EU' In case you hadn't noticed, we are already in the EU.

In terms of swaping one government for another, the fundamental difference between the UK and the EU for Scotland is that the latter would at least hand sovereignty back to us.


weetoonboy wrote:Does anyone really understand what they're voting on yet? Other than some Braveheart type romanticism.


I would simply say we are voting on whether or not we want Scotland to be like all other independent countries in the world, which is a perfectly normal and reasonable aspiration.

Independence does not mean we will be in the EU - it means we can decide whether or not we want to be in the EU
It does not mean we will use the Euro, or Sterling, or a new Scottish currency - it means we can decide which currency we use
It does not mean we will retain the monarchy or become a republic - it means we can decide which of the two we want
etc.

In other words, its not an end in itself, its a means to an end.


Going back to the discussion, I’m not totally against Devo Max, so long as it amounted to Full Fiscal Autonomy, rather than just some further powers. I do of course want to see full Independence but if the majority of people want something just a little short of that then perhaps it should be delivered.

Economically I can see problems with the BoE continuing to set interest rates / issue Sterling Government Bonds / increase the money supply at the same time Scotland is pursuing a different fiscal strategy to the other parts of the UK.

My feeling is that if it is an option in the Referendum, then that is what the outcome will be. It’s a bit like the psychology of going in to Starbucks or Costa – most folk go for the medium drink rather than the large or small.

The SNP has achieved a majority in the Parliament and MUST ask a straight Yes or No. The party has campaigned for Independence and to not ask a straight question would seem wrong. A second question could be asked of course assuming the majority in question one were against full Independence. Do the SNP want this? I’m not sure, maybe secretly yes. Do the Unionists want it? I think yes, more and more are suggesting more powers, knowing full well the Status Quo is now only about as popular if not less so than Independence regardless of what the media say.

However, part of me does see Devo Max as a further stepping stone to full Independence so much so that when asked again about full Independence in say 10 years it wouldn’t seem like much of a leap. This gradualist strategy has worked well for nationalists, bit by bit demonstrating that Scotland is just like any other independent country and is perfectly capable of governing itself.

The negative stories will continue from the traditional media but I feel less people are paying attention to it or are at least fed up being told we can’t do this and we can’t do that. The internet has been great for the drive to Independence as it has allowed alternative views to become accessible to many more people, who are capable of making their own mind up about what they want for their country.

The political argument seems to already have been won by the pro Independence camp, as demonstrated by how well Scotland has embraced devolution, firstly electing a minority SNP then majority Government and how Scotland is moving in a different direction politically from the rest of the UK.

The economic argument is being won too and the accusations of us being too poor seem to have subsided lately.

The social aspect is one which needs focus as naturally the Yes campaign will be asking people to remove themselves from all they have ever known. I would say to anyone who regards themself as Scottish and British that you can continue to be just that after Independence. Perhaps not in terms of citizenship, but certainly socially as Scotland will firmly remain part of the British Isles after Independence.
Should Scotland be an Independent country?

Yes, I believe Scotland is a country and should therefore govern itself.
No, Scotland is not a country it is simply part of the UK and should therefore be governed from London.
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Re: Scottish vote

Postby petewick » Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:45 pm

Keep the Union, if not it will only deepen the apathy that the south has against northern England......
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Re: Scottish vote

Postby Govangirl » Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:50 pm

Image
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Blow away the dreams that break your heart
Blow away the lies that leave you nothing but lost and brokenhearted
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Re: Scottish vote

Postby LANDROVER ROGER » Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:03 pm

Govangirl wrote:Image

Mint! :lol: :lol:
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