Civil Unrest

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Re: Civil Unrest

Postby LANDROVER ROGER » Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:55 am

Tomorrow evening`s Jeremy Kyle show has been cancelled as the entire audience are going late night shopping.
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Re: Civil Unrest

Postby ionnsaigh » Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:59 am

Now is as good a time as any, to turn our attention to those involved.
Lets see how shall we best describe them - protesters - rioters - looters - feral rats - scum ? ( perhaps all )
The Eleven year old boy - which category best fits ?
The Grammar School girl, a feral rat, one things for sure, it will be interesting to see a breakdown of those arrested, and if found guilty, their subsequent punishment. Perhaps we should give them guns, and send them off to war, seriously though. The media is having a field day, they breath a collective sigh of relief, as the focus of attention turns away from the dogs to the riots, and the solutions. God what a bumbling idiot of a man Boris, and the equally repugnant - bring on the water cannon Ken - wae an eye on his forthcoming vote for Mayor. Socialism don't make me laugh. Suggestive measures ranging from water cannon, baton rounds ( rubber bullets ) the army and vigilante mobs. The threat of benefit cuts, evictions from council houses, would the Grammar girl be subjected to a similar fate , or are they discriminating against the poor ?
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Re: Civil Unrest

Postby four eyes » Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:58 pm

yes they are discriminating against the poor, this demonisation of the Poor and the working classes has gone far enough. I had to turn my TV off as I just couldn't take any more.I sometimes wonder if these people actually believe the drivel they come out with. I'm not sure what's worse them or the people they pander to. This will just be another excuse to curtail civil liberties and hasten in the police state that the political elite and their wealthy friends are hankering after. It truly is a sad state of affairs when the public will sit back and let them get away with this in the name of securing people's homes and justice. What's worse the hang them and flog them brigade will lap it up on the rest of the apathetic public and the Daily Mail readers etc won't even notice what's happening around them till it's too late. Whilst watching Newsnight I was astounded at the amount of utter crap that comes out of politicians mouths and goes unchallenged. We're letting these people get away with it, and the saddest part of all is they think we're too stupid to notice. God help us.
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Re: Civil Unrest

Postby EMDEE » Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:37 am

Is it really a good idea for the Government/Police to be drafting in a retired New York Police Comissioner to give advice on Policing in this country?
:<>

Also, any opinions as to why these activities didn't spread north of the Border? There are problems of deprivation and social exclusion here as well. Is there a different mindset up here? Is there less racism up here? Is there a greater community spirit here? Are the conurbations in England quite simply too big and concentrated for their own good? :?:
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Re: Civil Unrest

Postby LANDROVER ROGER » Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:53 am

EMDEE wrote:Is it really a good idea for the Government/Police to be drafting in a retired New York Police Comissioner to give advice on Policing in this country?
:<>

I think that it his experience in dealing with gang warfare that may be of use.
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Re: Civil Unrest

Postby ionnsaigh » Sat Aug 13, 2011 12:58 pm

EMDEE wrote:Also, any opinions as to why these activities didn't spread north of the Border? There are problems of deprivation and social exclusion here as well. Is there a different mindset up here? Is there less racism up here? Is there a greater community spirit here? Are the conurbations in England quite simply too big and concentrated for their own good? :?:


Funny you should say that, I thought about this as recently as this morning, as I drove through a working class area of high deprivation. The place reminded me of Easterhouse ( a wee bit ) A row of Bronx like shops, high rise flats mixed with four in block type housing.........There wasn't many people around, however those that I did see, where mostly young men.
I never saw any children apart from one in a pushchair, this was roughly 11AM, it was dry and some light sunshine was poking through the thick-ish clouds, and not a bike or football to be seen. I did notice a large crowd watching a game of football though, so maybe all the weans where there. The whole place and the people, looked as if they had seen better days. Lets just say that the guys ( some in there 50 - 60 year ) where acutely aware of my presence ( as with any stranger )
So overall the conditions reflected those that draw a parallel - between poverty and crime - or for that matter revolution.
If it was going to start anywhere in Scotland, then this would be the fertile growing ground, or at least so you would think........ I think it would be fair to say that the church holds very little sway - as to the schools - well they have a greater input and impact, on those who attend. I don't know about racism although I tend to think that the problem appears less.... however coming from an Irish Catholic background... I know it exists here in Scotland, as it does anywhere... so I'm baffled ( what's new ) :D
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Re: Civil Unrest

Postby ionnsaigh » Sat Aug 13, 2011 1:30 pm

Another wee thing that's getting my back up.............. High class twits telling me that I belong to the privileged class,
I have lived in this Council flat for over 34 years ( paying full rent ) the way I see things now - this is my home and if you ever have the foolishness to attempt to evict me - I will see this as an act of war.
Over my dead body............ :?

PS I make no distinction between those 25% who pay full rent - or those who for whatever reason - receive housing benefit. Us tenants should stick together.............
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Re: Civil Unrest

Postby EMDEE » Sat Aug 13, 2011 1:59 pm

Of course, we have to consider the example that has been set by politicians in recent years. The fact that so many of them have been exposed as having wasted taxpayers funds in spurious expenses claims gives out a bad message to those who feel that they have been effectively "swept under the carpet" and forgotten about. This sort of behaviour by our elected representatives is nothing more that "looting"! Many of those who are now appearing in court in connection with the recent unrest have nothing, and also have no prospects, whilst the swindling politicians, I believe, are on generous salary, and should be able to live a fairly comfortable life without having to push both the limits of what is required to carry out their duties, and the credulity of taxpayers.

Withot wishing to diminish the unacceptability of the actions of those who have been rampaging through English cities within the past week, I feel that the adoption of the moral high ground by politicians over this week has been a bit nauseating, and the phrase "don't do as I do, do as I say" comes to mind.
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Re: Civil Unrest

Postby ionnsaigh » Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:02 pm

Absolutely.
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Re: Civil Unrest

Postby LenMac » Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:52 pm

Excellent point Emdee. What roll models the politicians and bankers are ! And one English Fire Authority chairman has just claimed a £20,000 lump-sum expenses payment . Don't recall anyone rushing back from holiday when the expenses scandal was in the news and seething at the press podium, threatening to take the Speaker's grace & favour house off him. Just waiting now for the police & fire brigade to threaten to strike ! Then it'll be "into a tin hat" for me and thee - Dad's Army ! :lol:
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Re: Civil Unrest

Postby EMDEE » Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:42 pm

The threat of removing families of those involved from their social housing accommodation is one that should cause great concern to the people of this country. It reeks of revenge and is a knee-jerk reaction to a problem that politicians should have been addressing many years ago. The only thing that this will achieve is the creation of a further criminal underclass that is banned from even being accommodated by Local Authorities. Where is this idea going to take us, and where could it end? It is a typical "let them eat cake" idea from a government composed of individuals from privileged backgrounds, with a dearth of knowledge about the root causes of these problems, or how people exist in deprived communities. This is going to solve nothing. Once again it is a case of "papering over the cracks" in society instead of addressing the deep-seated social problems that exist, treating the symptoms instead of the disease. We hear Ed Miliband talking about sorting out the problems in society, but will this ever be converted into action? The Labour party has been in power on enough occasions to have been able to have done something about all of this, and it is not a new problem. The UK, despite what we may think, is still one of the wealthiest countries in the World, and it is utterly deplorable that we have within our shores such ghettoes and pockets of social deprivation. This is the result of mis-management of the country, both socially and economically, over many decades, and a succession of governments run by individuals whose priority is self-aggrandisement at the expense of social justice.

Another rant :<>
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Re: Civil Unrest

Postby four eyes » Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:57 pm

it may be a rant but it's true, the problems were not caused by poor people but by rich bankers. Now they want the poor to pay for it. Revolution is coming, it's only a matter of time, don't laugh it only needs a Nationalist party led by someone with a bit of credibility. The country is fed up with self-serving politicians, the time for change is here. Pressure is building on those in power are too blind to see it, I'd vote for anyone as long as it wasn't one of the three major parties.
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Re: Civil Unrest

Postby LenMac » Sat Aug 13, 2011 7:52 pm

LANDROVER ROGER wrote:
EMDEE wrote:Is it really a good idea for the Government/Police to be drafting in a retired New York Police Comissioner to give advice on Policing in this country?
:<>

I think that it his experience in dealing with gang warfare that may be of use.


Johnny Adair would probably be cheaper!
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Re: Civil Unrest

Postby four eyes » Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:45 am

and more efficient.
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Re: Civil Unrest

Postby ionnsaigh » Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:18 am

four eyes wrote: Revolution is coming, it's only a matter of time, don't laugh it only needs a Nationalist party led by someone with a bit of credibility. The country is fed up with self-serving politicians, the time for change is here. Pressure is building on those in power are too blind to see it, I'd vote for anyone as long as it wasn't one of the three major parties.


I agree largely with the sentiment, however the act of voting isn't necessarily revolutionary. Revolution requires a number of conditions, voting and gaining a large majority would legitimize ( public opinion ) as to the rights and wrongs of the struggle.
Vote - vote for what ? Scottish independence, this would at least, offer a common unified thread to the people of Scotland. Personally I'm sick to death of Westminster, the Met,London,NOW, phone tapping, the Royals, the Olympics.
Can't bloody stand any of it....... and I'm no racist. So yes I would favour a nationalistic approach, however revolution is best obtained by forming a movement, as opposed to voting for a political party. When the Scottish movement for independence decided to form the Scottish National Party, that movement lost any advantage, it literally tied one hand behind it's back, by accepting the constitutional make up. The SNP are largely bourgeois, they fail to take into account class division, and it's removal from our shores and borders. I would much prefer a Socialist British alternative, than a independent Scotland, that failed to address the unequal distribution of wealth...... however this scenario is unlikely to happen. Anyway there is nothing sinister or wrong - regarding a small country - wishing to be recognised, and standing on it's own feet.
Revolution requires the individual to do nothing, other than except the range of consequences, their action may provoke. If you do nothing, this is essentially a peaceful act, the promise of peace brings the revolutionary vanguard and the liberal middle class, into the equation. The revolution takes place initially - within one's own head, by saying no, no to the authority ( a peaceful act )
The people of Scotland require a movement that addresses both, the inequality that plagues our country and our people,
and the desire for self determination ( human right )
In a Democracy people have the right to protest, however lets face it - you can have protests that do little in the way of impact to the authority ( The Grand Old Duke Of York he had ten thousand men, marched them up to the top of the hill, and marched them down again ) or you can adopt the revolutionary tactic of civil disobedience, by saying no.
Hit them where it hurts..... Oh aye it will hurt those that control the finances of Scotland through Westminster, and it would be fair to say it will hurt those that say no, and for that matter those that say yes. Public services would cease,
during this period - however we could quickly bring about the conditions for independence. If and it's a big if we refused to pay our Council Tax. :roll:
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