Isa wrote:Michael Forsyth is desperate to hold one now without the Scottish people having the chance to make up their own minds when all the pros and cons are discussed.
Stomach churning isn't it. These people deny Scotland the right to decide its own future for years then the minute a pro-independence party has a majority they want one yesterday.
I hate to think what lies and scaremongering will be turned out between now and the referendum.
Isa wrote:
I would like to hear both arguments
Exactly Isa, people deserve to know what independence for Scotland will mean for them and how it will affect their lives. Its up to both camps to convince the people that their vision is the way forward. I feel there are many people who are undecided or have not thought about it in great detail and it is important for everyone to make an informed choice.
four eyes wrote:anybody care to give some reasons why independence would be a good thing to Scotland. By independence I mean total independence.
I’m not sure whether you mean independence from the EU too when you say ‘total independence’ or simply independence from the rest of the UK. In terms of the EU, that’s another argument for another day and one which I’m not really up on.
There are many reasons why independence would be good for Scotland and there are people way better qualified than me to discuss. However, I am 100% convinced already and have been for a long time that we should have the right to self determination.
The UK in my eyes is an unfair political and economic union. At present the Welsh Assembly has put in place a Labour led administration, we have a majority SNP Government and as we know at Westminster there is a Tory Government (sorry Tory / LD coalition).
I’ll take some convincing that the Tories have any right to make decisions on Scotland’s future, when at best 1 in 6 of the population voted for them at the last UK GE. It is clear to me that the parts that make up UK are very diverse and the union is incapable of representing the political aspirations of everyone. I know that point could be made about independent states too, but at least in an independent state, the people of that state are responsible for the government they elect. At present, Scotland gets whatever government England votes for.
Independence would be good for us as I think we would remove a massive chip from our shoulder. Intentionally or not I think some people in this country see themselves as inferior, when there is no logical justification for that. For me, Scotland is the opposite, forward thinking, innovative and socially conscious. Our national psyche would receive a boost and I think there would be a celebration of everything that is good about Scottishness, whether you are Scottish or just happen to live here.
I don’t mean that in a cringy shortbread and tartan type of way – I mean we would gain a better sense of national pride and identity.
Of course the economic argument will be vital in convincing the electorate of to vote for Independence. I fail to see how we are ‘stronger as part of the union’ when that union has the second largest budget deficit and the largest level of indebtedness (GDP per head) in Europe. (admittedly that understanding might be a little out of date now following events in Greece and Portugal). Scotland has a budget SURPLUS, something only one other country in Europe has, yet we are going to be facing massive public spending cuts. That annoys me.
I don’t see what is wrong in wanting to see Scotland retain its own revenues and be responsible for devising a tax system that it feels will most appeal to the people who actually live and work here, instead of something that appeals to people south east of the M25.
Making these types of big decisions, including whether our armed forces participate in combat, I believe is the fundamental right of every nation and I want Scotland to have that.
Maybe that is what it boils down to – do people believe Scotland is a country? If so then why do we continue to take orders from a government voted for by another country? I want us to stand up, be brave and take responsibility for our own affairs.
In 1979 a majority of people who voted, voted for devolution (but it was quashed by the UK Govt)
Following the 1997 UK GE devolution was achieved and in 2007 Scotland elected its first pro-independence (minority) government.
In 2011 that government gained a majority.
That’s some nice progress in my 32 years but we need to take the ultimate step to take this country forward. Self determination is a right.
Think on the countries who have achieved it, even relatively recently. The Baltic states, loads more ex Soviet states, former Yugoslav countries, Czech Republic / Slovakia. Have any of these countries voted to go back in to union? We should have that same opportunity. We are no different.
I’ve deliberately not just listed a number of bullet points as it is the points I have made above that I do not think can be attacked by unionist. As EMDEE has said though, we should hear some POSITIVE reasons why Scotland should remain part of the UK.
Watching Newsnight Scotland last night, the big question was about the apparent death of unionism in Scotland and following the resignation of the leaders of the three main parties opposed to independence following the election result it is difficult to see how the unionist parties will be able to put forward a positive campaign for remaining in the union. I’m sure there will be plenty of mud slinging and opposition to the positive points put forward for going it alone but as the recent election proved, negative campaigns do not work. The electorate want to hear why you should vote for something, not why you should vote against it.