Royal Attack

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Re: Royal Attack

Postby ionnsaigh » Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:51 am

odds wrote:I have to disagree with that statement, 'ordinary kids', and don't forget these are supposedly clever well educated kids, don't go around smashing up windows and wreaking havoc in town centers.


That's exactly what they do, remember the violence at the anti fox hunting ban, the Middle Classes will act when push comes to shove.

odds wrote: The people that cause the problems for the police are the hangers on who will stop at nothing to cause havoc wherever they can.


Everybody will feel the effect of these cuts, even the great unwashed, so yes they have the democratic right to join the protest. One never had to have a member of your family, in the armed forces, to protest against the wars.
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Re: Royal Attack

Postby Hume » Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:08 pm

Govangirl wrote:Because England has no parliament their students have to pay £9,000 a year.


That's not really true though is it? If England had a parliament, it would be a Tory one and these cuts would be happening anyway.
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No, Scotland is not a country it is simply part of the UK and should therefore be governed from London.
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Re: Royal Attack

Postby Hume » Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:29 pm

Govangirl wrote:
gizmo wrote:The fact that Scottish and Welsh students do not pay towards their education is a completely different argument, would you be happier if they did?


I think it is very much part of the argument.
No, certainly not, to your second statement but the division in what is supposed to be a UNITED kingdom is a blatant one. Scots would be quite rightly jumping up and down if the roles here were reversed.




Govangirl wrote:We either pay taxes to support education or we don't. Gizmo reckons we shouldn't have to pay for these students but my taxes are going to Scottish students and our own children are paying £9,000 a year! Sorry, that is definitely part of the argument.


I should have read further in the thread. I understand your frustration but the further education costs in Scotland and Wales are as relevant as those in Germany and France.

I take it you are not a fan of devolution?

England voted the Con Dem Govt in so it will need to get on with it. I agree with your support of the right to protest though.
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Re: Royal Attack

Postby Govangirl » Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:08 pm

odds wrote:
When you see reports on the TV that students have caused riots, just bear in mind that probably a lot of the people 'protesting' aren't even students, merely thugs activists seeking an opportunity to cause trouble.
.


Yes! You have said that more eloquently than me but that was what I was meaning

Hume wrote:
I take it you are not a fan of devolution?


Oh no, I think it is fantastic that Scotland give their students a free education but I was angry that across the border the payment was £3000. That anger has turned to rage now that it could hit £9000. Perhaps if everyone in the UK paid £3000 there would be no need to raise the cap. Actually, if Unis charge more, I can't see Scotland being able to sustain that level of support. But certainly, good for them, I say. And yes, you're right, if we had a Parliament it would be Tory :roll:
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Re: Royal Attack

Postby Hume » Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:04 am

Govangirl wrote:
Hume wrote:
I take it you are not a fan of devolution?


Oh no,



Fair enough, but the line below seems to contradict that. The whole point of devolving these issues is so the individual countries in the UK can make the decisions they want.

Govangirl wrote:Perhaps if everyone in the UK paid £3000 there would be no need to raise the cap.


No, if Scotland wants to provide free education, Scotland can provide free education. Education is not a UK issue.

Your point questioning how sustainable that is is well made though and you may well be right.
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Re: Royal Attack

Postby ionnsaigh » Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:39 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8ZvZG_dYvQ

They make me feel pride, they give me hope. :D
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Re: Royal Attack

Postby Mr Plod » Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:23 am

I think a lot of people are overlooking the fact that Scotland has always had an excellent education system. Even in the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries literacy rates in Scotland were 20% to 30% higher than any other european country. In fact I believe it's literacy rates have never dipped below 70%.

The Scottish government, unlike their penny pinching, expenses fiddling counterparts south of the border realised early doors that if they levied tuition fees, the impact here, where the standard of living is already below the UK average, it would have a knock on effect for our institutions both Industrial and scientific. In short it would affect the country's ability to manufacture exports and reduce the GDP.

The UK as a whole is already woefully short of Engineers, and other manufacturing related occupations as a result. Even if we had the money to manufacture the stuff that India and China and the minidragons Korea and Tiawan we could'nt because we do not have sufficient skilled engineers to do so.

All that will happen is that English toffs will carry on as usual attending the best universities and getting the best Degrees and getting the best jobs (which is a Tory wet dream about to come true) and ordinary middle class and working class English kids with academic ability will be denied tertiary education. In the long term this will actually ruin the english economy. And benefit the scottish economy because there will be less English graduates chasing Scottish jobs.

If our Universities are open to all Scots, irrespective of ability to pay, we will produce eventually the Engineers, doctors, mathematicians, designers and other vocations our industries, hospitals and schools need. Any excess can just travel south and fill the vacancies there caused by the skill shortages created by the lack of vision and foresight of the English Tories.

The Scots have a long history of exporting their talented youngsters to better employment opportunities in foreign climes. Now that we no longer have an empire they'll just have to go south and take all the English jobs that would have been filled by middle class english graduates. Lets face it, they're british citizens and have every right to. And if the English are not happy about that then they'll just have to keep smashing up public buildings in London and throwing stuff at Prince Charles and his grab-a-granny wife till the cows come home. English voters gave us the Con(ned)-Dem(again) coalition. Now that their chickens have come home to roost they got what they voted for and they have absolutely no right whatsoever to complain about free University education in Scotland.

And if you are worried about having to pay for OUR education with YOUR TAXES??? Fine. Give us back control of OUR 20 Billion pounds per annum North Sea Oil and Gas Industry and we'll happily pay for it ourselves.

It cost me almost £20000 to put my daughter through 5 years at University in Edinburgh. I don't remember anyone from south of the border contributing to my bank account at any time. I had to pay for her food, clothing, rent, utility bills, books, laptops, art materials, photocopier paper and usage. Not to mention the fuel bills driving from here to Edinburgh once a month. And that was after she had recieved the absolute minimum student loan( because her parents were'nt druggies, benefit scroungers or axe murderers) of just under £2000 per annum.
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Re: Royal Attack

Postby Mr Plod » Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:38 am

ionnsaigh wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8ZvZG_dYvQ

They make me feel pride, they give me hope. :D


What an idiotic statement to make. Are you telling us that if they were in your street smashing up your house and car you'd be proud of that??? They give you hope??? Hope for what?? Are you nuts??? How can wanton violence and destruction of public property give you hope?? I hope the police trace each and every one of them. I'd also like to see the courts prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law and put them all in prison. Knowing that muppets, thugs and prats like them cannot commit crime with impunity would make my chest swell with pride and give me hope. Their conduct has destroyed what little hope any decent law abiding student ever has now of getting reduced University fees debated in the commons.
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Re: Royal Attack

Postby EMDEE » Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:55 am

Mr Plod

I don't want to quote your second last post in full, but I think your underlying implication is that the Scottish Enlightenment of the 18th Century continues, something that I would like to think is still the case, and Scotland can still lead the world in Engineering, Science, Medicine, Literature, Finance :shock: :?:

Scotland led the world two centuries ago and historically has punched well above its weight. Why is it not happening now?
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Re: Royal Attack

Postby Mr Plod » Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:45 pm

At the end of the day my point is that each and every one of our kids should be getting tertiary education for free.

This country (Britain) can easily afford to do this but the government chooses not to now. Why is this?
Because Tony Blair and his cronies, and now the Con(ned)-Dem(again) coalition are pumping hundreds of billions of pounds into "The war against Terror" both here and overseas. Huge swathes of our tax revenues and the billions "borrowed" by Gordon Brown et al are being spent on Military and security commitments. And we are being told we might still be fighting for another 10 years!!.

The reason we have no engineers is because Maggie Thatcher was brought up in a shop and thought if it was good enough for her then it was good enough for every damn one of us. So she decimated the manufacturing Industry and replaced it with a service industry, full of shops and hotels and stuff.

Great. So now, while our bankers and hedge fund mismanagers can steal cash with the best of the worlds robber barons, to fund their increasingly obscene bonuses, our engineers, designers and scientists cannot be produced in enough numbers to match the output of our competitors.

We all pay taxes. ALL of our kids are entitled to a free education. The scottish government decided that a portion of it's allocation of local government funding should be spent on providing free student tuition. It was so important that they were prepared to let other services go to the wall or go short to do this. Why did the english government not have the same foresight and vision?

It's a real shame. In fact it's an act of irresponsibility and short termism on their part.
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