Sectarianism

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Sectarianism

Postby ionnsaigh » Wed Nov 24, 2010 9:23 pm

Did I hear the song - No Surrender - at Ibrox Park, tonight. :oops:
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Re: Sectarianism

Postby gizmo » Wed Nov 24, 2010 10:49 pm

I believe it was the cockneys what sung it.
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Re: Sectarianism

Postby Bobh » Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:57 pm

gizmo wrote:I believe it was the cockneys what sung it.
What...

Yes 30 seconds into the game.
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Re: Sectarianism

Postby ionnsaigh » Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:27 am

They ( according to the Herald ) have caught the culprit. We can now look forward, to an end of sectarianism at Ibrox Park. :lol:
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Re: Sectarianism

Postby ionnsaigh » Thu Nov 25, 2010 1:02 pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/sport1 ... 225458.stm

Anyone on the forum, on Hugh Dallis E-Mail list ? :lol:
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Re: Sectarianism

Postby ionnsaigh » Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:55 am

Seriously though, I think the whole thing has been blown out of all proportion. Nonetheless it has caught me in one of those interesting problems, that come few and far between ( or so it seems ) The dreaded moral dilemma.

My first reaction to the Catholic Church is, well feck you, tough cookie - bite the bullet - and get on with it. Can you blame people for getting angry ? People placed in your care were abused by your priests in your property. Then you attempted to cover it up, not for the sake of abused children, rather the benefit of the Church and Pedophiles.

The case you make however, appears fair and rational, in that the poster implicated, the head of your Church, the Pope.
For example, one must refrain from causing offence - Mohamed's name taken in vain ...equals civil court, and the dreaded Fatwa. So yes, one has to be careful, when it comes to criticising, something that others, hold true, and dear.

However when the day is dead and done (and as an ex catholic ) I hold that one hidden abused child, is more important than a Hundred Popes. Furthermore I regard myself as being non sectarian, or at least I try to be.
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Re: Sectarianism

Postby neilly » Fri Nov 26, 2010 4:49 pm

ionnsaigh wrote:Did I hear the song - No Surrender - at Ibrox Park, tonight. :oops:


I have the track on The Boss's "Born In The USA" album, but didn't hear it at the start of the match as I was on the toilet at the time. Yours sincerely, Arsene Venga.
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Re: Sectarianism

Postby ionnsaigh » Fri Nov 26, 2010 5:38 pm

neilly wrote:
ionnsaigh wrote:Did I hear the song - No Surrender - at Ibrox Park, tonight. :oops:


I have the track on The Boss's "Born In The USA" album, but didn't hear it at the start of the match as I was on the toilet at the time. Yours sincerely, Arsene Venga.


Would that be the " up to our knee's in Fenian blood version " ? :lol:
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Re: Sectarianism

Postby ionnsaigh » Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:23 pm

Hostility to Catholics in Scotland is deep, wide and vicious, a spokesman for the Church has claimed.

Peter Kearney, the director of the Scottish Catholic Media Office, made his comments after the sacking of SFA referees’ chief Hugh Dallas over allegations he sent an offensive e-mail about the Pope during his recent visit to Scotland.

Mr Kearney warned: “Let no-one be in any doubt, with this shameful episode, Catholics in Scotland have drawn a line in the sand.

“The bigotry, the bile, the sectarian undercurrents and innuendos must end. Such hateful attitudes have had their day. They poison the well of community life. They must be excised and cast out once and for all.”

Mr Kearney sent a letter to the SFA last week demanding Mr Dallas’s dismissal if the accusations over the e-mail were true.

He said yesterday that “tasteless” e-mails may simply be “the tip of a disturbing iceberg of anti-Catholicism in Scottish society”.

Mr Kearney said the truth at the heart of the allegations surrounding Mr Dallas may never emerge. However, he claimed sectarianism showed little sign of disappearing.

Former first minister Jack McConnell called it “Scotland’s secret shame” and led several high-profile summits to challenge “bigoted attitudes and bigoted behaviour” wherever they were found.

Beneath the surface of the nasty e-mails and the intemperate asides of public figures there are others whose malignancy is altogether more pernicious

Peter Kearney, Scottish Catholic Media Office director

Church of Scotland spokesman the Rev Ian Galloway said: “The entire Christian community is united in condemning sectarian activities and attitudes. They have no place in an inclusive Scotland. Violence perpetrated against my Catholic colleagues appals me. There is no excuse whatsoever.”

Leading historian Professor Tom Devine, based at Edinburgh University, said of Mr Kearney’s comments: “Whether one accepts it or not, it is historically significant.

“This is the first time that an official spokesman for the Catholic Church in Scotland has come out to say this with such vehemence.”

Mr Kearney said earlier: “Reaction to my letter has proved beyond doubt that Scotland has become completely inured to the corrosive effects of religious bigotry and may even have lost sight of what constitutes it.

“Many people have claimed that e-mails similar to the one in question circulated widely in the weeks leading up to the Pope’s visit. These comments are, incredibly, intended to somehow mitigate the culpability of those who were recently being accused.

“Sadly, they do nothing of the sort. Instead, they illuminate the reality of a layer of deep, wide and vicious anti-Catholic hostility in our country.”

Mr Kearney said anti-Catholic feeling had often been tolerated by members of the church because of a desire to assimilate and integrate that often overcame a willingness to challenge.

He said: “That is changing, I detect a new resolve, especially among younger people.

“Our grandparents and even our parents suffered intolerance and persecution. We will not tolerate it. We will not laugh it off or see the funny side – because there is no funny side.

“Beneath the surface of the nasty e-mails and the intemperate asides of public figures there are others whose malignancy is altogether more pernicious.

“As the racist bile of comedians like Bernard Manning underpinned and affirmed the actions of many who committed racially motivated attacks in the 1970s and ’80s, so too does the Catholic-baiting of the chattering classes bolster the bigotry of a new generation of vicious thugs.”

Writing in a Sunday newspaper, recent examples of intimidation of priests was a snapshot of the intolerance suffered by Catholics.

Questions arose about Mr Dallas’s future as the SFA’s head of referee development after reports claimed a photograph relating to the Pope’s September visit had been passed on via official SFA e-mails.

The photograph showed a road sign featuring a woman and a child with a doctored message referring to the pontiff below.

Mr Kearney last week demanded swift action over the allegations, saying the e-mail was “gratuitously insulting to the Pope, deeply offensive to the Catholic community of Scotland, and an incitement to anti-Catholic sectarianism”.

A Scottish Government spokesman said: “Sectarianism is an anachronism from our past and should never be accepted, excused or tolerated.

“The Scottish Government supports a range of initiatives to tackle sectarianism through education and other approaches.

“There is, for example, the Show Bigotry the Red Card initiative tackling sectarianism among football supporters, and Nil by Mouth has been working with partner organisations – including the Scottish Government – to tackle sectarianism in the workplace.”
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Re: Sectarianism

Postby Mr Plod » Sat Jan 08, 2011 10:11 pm

As an individual who who spent many years dealing with the effects and aftermath of sectarian violence in Glasgow I can honestly say that sectarianism is becoming the sole preserve of the brain dead thugs, who populate the terraces of certain football teams in Glasgow and Edinburgh. And those teams are not doing enough to eradicate it from the terraces, they would like us to think they are, but they are not. Offensive songs about Irish Unionist or Irish Republican historical events have no place in Scottish Football or any other public place for that matter. Sing it in the bath, if sing it you must, but try not to foist your outdated sectarian viewpoint on others who would rather not share your company.

The Orange lodge is a mere shadow of it's former self and is still percieved to be one of the last bastions of institutionalised discrimination and bigotry (no matter what they may say to the contrary) and they are definitely not representative of the viewpoint of ordinary protestants ( or even anyone who just happens to be christian but not Catholic christian).

And Ibrox does not have a monopoly on sectarian retards or just retards in general. On 9 November 2010, in amongst the usual monobrow knuckledraggers singing Irish republican songs at Parkhead, was a shower of cretins with a banner proclaiming offensive comments "Your Deeds Would Shame All The Devils in Hell. Ireland, Iraq, Afghanistan. No Bloodstained Poppy on Our Hoops," and it was photographed and syndicated in a number of news agencies worldwide.

Although not sectarian per se, it is indicative of the parlous state of their general mental cognitive skills, in that they have absolutely no shame, none whatsoever. The fact that many of the soldiers who have given their lives for their country were Catholic completely eludes their reptilian minds.

And it is these mindless morons on both sides of the "Sectarian Divide" that we need to eradicate from our society if we wish to eradicate sectarianism or any other antisocial ill that befalls us, because it is always these self same morons that take up the banner, no matter how repugnant the cause. They do not have the mental equipment that you or I have that causes us to say "Hold on, this is all wrong, I'm not doing this" They positively revel in vicious civil disobedience. They do not care who they offend, because they believe it is their inalienable right to be offensive to others.

The "glass ceiling" for Catholics in the workplace has by and large become a thing of the past in most walks of life ( unless you apply for the post of "Grand Poohbar of the Orange Lodge obviously ) and this has allowed a great many talented individuals, who would otherwise have been suppressed and discriminated against, to achieve their rightful ambitions.

The last real bastion of Sectarianism is however, segregated schools, or as they are called these days, "Denominational Schools" I just cannot understand how in this day and age. in a secular state, we need the utterly unjustifiable public expense of segregated schools. Where we only need one school, our taxpayers have to fund 2. A monumental waste of badly needed funds and resources. Get rid of them and sectarianism would be dead in the water in a single generation, two generations tops.

Denominational schools are an irrelevance in this modern and more enlightened age and serve only the needs of the Catholic Church, which like every other church is watching it's congregations shrink, and the average age of the remaining faithful is about 60+ years of age, and most of those will have shed the mortal coil in one or two generations, and very few youngsters to fill the gaps (and the church's coffers) in years to come. These schools, whether they be Protestant, Roman Catholic, Hebrew or Muslim, must be dispensed with if we wish to remove discrimination and the sectarian divide from the public mindset forever.

I don't care what the Cardinals say about the right of catholics to be taught in denominational schools being enshrined in Scots law. It's a law that for it's day was a probably a good bit of legislation, but it does not stand up to scrutiny in this modern, more open society, and it needs to be revisited by the legislators with a view to repealing it. It is a major stumbling block to reform.

I get frustrated by the Catholic Church's stance on the topic of denominational schools. On the one hand they shout from the rooftops about sectarianism being a blight on society in Scotland, whilst the other hand demands segregated schools for Catholics and Protestants. It is, in my opinion, a completely untenable position.

And if the Hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church in the Vatican cannot be moved to denounce and surrender the child molesters and abusers in their midst ( I'm sorry but a carefully worded, and ambigious apology statement from the Pope is not sufficient in my view ) to the lawful authorities despite worldwide condemnation and horror, then they will never relinquish their stranglehold on the education of ordinary children in Scotland, whether they be Catholic or otherwise.

However, the decision may be out of the hands of the church soon anyway, because local authorities, constrained by ever shrinking budgets may have to close or merge more and more secondary schools, as school rolls fall, forcing them by dint of numbers, to become virtually non denominational anyway.

Roll on Utopia.................... :arrow:
Eagles may soar............but Weasels never get sucked into jet engines
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