Jimmy Reid

[ionnsaigh]

Scab.

[blueboyno1]

Yer Talkin tae yersel again Ionnsaigh ,does that not tell you something.

[ionnsaigh]

Yer Talkin tae yersel again Ionnsaigh ,does that not tell you something.

It tells me that you took the bait.
As far as Jimmy Reid is concerned. About a year after leaving the Communist party, he joined the Labour party, a party that he described in his election address, as having elements akin, to the Spanish right wing ( Catholic Church backed party ) the Falange. He attacked the striking miners and Aurthur Scargill on television, at a critical time of the strike. By doing so he undermined the thousands of Working Class mining communities who where struggling to survive. One wonders how a former Communist trouble maker, managed to obtain such a prime time television slot ? The key issue was unity, the whole of the trade union movement was being ruthlessly attacked by Thatcher and the British State.
Then of course he went on to be in the pay, of both Rupert Murdoch and Robert Maxwell writing for the Anti Working Class newspaper the Sun, amongst others.
By 1979 he became disillusioned with his new found friends in the Labour Party, and stood for the SNP.
If he was a true lover of all things Democratic, then why did he and the Labour Party, allow for inconsistencies to develop in the rules governing the selection process of candidates. Why O why ? It appears he believed more in himself than his former principles, selling yer Granny tae the Devil.
The Scottish establishment, came out in force to praise this great man, a true Working Class hero. Alex Ferguson and ( I remember when you used to be funny ) Mr Billy Connolly, praising the memory. Oh and I suspect the Govan romantics where swept along with the tide of misinformed media fueled sickening nostalgia. I thought his Nae Bevvy Speech was patronising to say the least, a union officials function is to represent and serve the wishes of the workers, not to replace one set of dictators with another.

[bill]

Scab.

So why do you say that Ionns?
Is it because of his public condemnation of Arthur Scargill during the miner's strike,or because he was employed by Rupert Murdoch's Sun newspaper at the time of the 5000 redundancies ?



A funny story with regard to Reid; he was seeking permission to access lands belonging to the Duke of Argyll, as part of a tv show. An irritable duke came on the phone to Reid. "Argyll here!"

To which Reid replied as quick as a flash!

"Govan here..."

[Govangirl]

Okay, I wasn’t going to answer any of Ionnsaigh’s usual ramblings but I will not allow this rubbish to pass without retort.

Most people on here can recount times in their lives when they were faced with formative experiences—incidents that branded their memory and shaped their future. There must be a lot of us who, in our teens and beyond, distilled that passion into determination. Yet, with time and work and home and well, just general life, most of us saw that passion dimmed by responsibility. We all compromise (which btw I think is necessary in politics) but the principles by which we live stay with us. In time, it is all too easy to become cynical and for many, bitterness can eat away at them. What people like Reid taught me, apart from forming my political beliefs, (and I have had his ‘rats’ speech on my wall for decades) is that you should never lose that passion, never let the bruising nature of your responsibilities rob you of that which you set out to contribute. And Ionns will never in a month of Sundays recognise that Reid never forfeited that passion – then again, perhaps he would have preferred leaders like Reid not to demand the right to work, but to fight for those on benefits.
Passion: Reid and his fellow union leaders refused to accept that five Clyde shipyards and 6,000 workers could be liquidised by Edward Heath's Tory government. For 14 months, they occupied the yards, working hard, managing the yards and filling the order books. Heath backed down and announced £35m of investment in Upper Clyde shipbuilding, which in turn enkindled another £65m in grants. That his workers could underpin Reid's eloquence with hard work and discipline is something that fills me with pride yet Ionns whines about the use of the word ‘bevvying’ a word no true Glaswegian would find offensive: Reid used it as part of the riches of the city’s vernacular, the language of his people, actually. He made working people proud of themselves and he helped give them an identity and a voice. Ionns refuses to understand this. Perhaps it is because it is such a long time he was actually belonged to the working class?
And what a cheek of Ionns to mention Arthur Scargill who for many reasons was never in the same league as Reid – for a start, he would never have confronted the Tories without a mandate from his union. Scargill divided and alienated whole parts of his union, something Reid never did. And I totally believe that Thatcher would not have defeated the miners if they had Jimmy Reid as their leader.
And then his change to the SNP – well, he was not the only one that was betrayed by NuLabour. He believed in a vigorous and honest, political philosophy under the name of Socialism and looked elsewhere when he wasn’t getting it. Again, compromise is not always easy but it’s not a crime. And he may well have moved from one political party to another but never did his basic beliefs change. The blatant greed of bankers and financiers have brought us all to the brink of catastrophe yet all over the country, all those hard-working, honest families who have always paid their way for everyone in society are going to pay with their jobs and their homes. But hey, we have all been rendered insensible by our tabloids and soaps and X Factor to either recognise it or even begin to do anything about it. We allowed Blair and his ilk to destroy Labour and now have the same problems as the shipyard workers had in the 70s – except there are no Jimmy Reids left!!!! Who today could develop a plan that would defeat the upcoming cruel cuts of the Tories and the spread of corporate greed?

I am no 'Govan Romantic' in the form that Ionns means but:

I thought his Nae Bevvy Speech was patronising to say the least, a union officials function is to represent and serve the wishes of the workers, not to replace one set of dictators with another.

is the most ridiculous and stupid thing he has ever said on here. Only a brain addled with weed could come up with that one.

And

Communist trouble maker

is exactly what I was thinking reading that tripe!


I mourn Jimmy Reid's passing with every shred of my being.

[blueboyno1]

Well said G.G. far better than anything i could have written ,but i am afraid where Ionnsaigh is concerned it's a waste of time .The only reason this man is on this and other forums is to cause disruption and controversy .He never knew Jimmy and what Jimmy was about ,all the stuff he wrote has been collected from the net and embellished by him.The esteem in which Jimmy was held could be seen by the amount of people who lined the streets as Jimmy returned home .

ENOUGH SAID .

[ralstonroy]

Best quote i have read was from one of his close friends from the shipyard days,"Iv'e been mourning for Jimmy for the last 30years".

Nough said.

[ionnsaigh]

GG.

First things first, you assert that through time and responsibility passion dims, it becomes somehow necessary to compromise. That may be the case for a number of dead souls, however one would have to concede, that those who change their previous passionately held principles - to their complete polar opposite ( turncoat ) are the first to compromise. So where do you draw the line ? When does the act become the deed ?

Reid and his fellow union leaders refused to accept that five Clyde shipyards and 6,000 workers could be liquidised by Edward Heath's Tory government. For 14 months, they occupied the yards, working hard, managing the yards and filling the order books.

From a Communists point of view, nobody is disputing the fact that work is better than no work, however the work in failed to address the ownership of the means of production, that and that alone - is unacceptable - particular from a Communist leader such as Reid.

Ionns whines about the use of the word ‘bevvying’ a word no true Glaswegian would find offensive: Reid used it as part of the riches of the city’s vernacular, the language of his people, actually. He made working people proud of themselves and he helped give them an identity and a voice. Ionns refuses to understand this. Perhaps it is because it is such a long time he was actually belonged to the working class?

You bevvy at the pub or at home - and as such I have no problem - bevvying at work however is another matter. Why would a communist leader stress a negative image of the workers, unless there was a problem at the yards. I would not except Reid or anyone else on this planet lecturing on my work ethic ( would you except the leader of Unison telling you not to bevvy at work ? Or is that type of talk for tough shipbuilders only ?
Is that last bit a wee personal jibe - it's so so unbecoming of you - quite frankly you disappoint as insults ultimately serve only to detract from the points at hand.

And what a cheek of Ionns to mention Arthur Scargill who for many reasons was never in the same league as Reid – for a start, he would never have confronted the Tories without a mandate from his union. Scargill divided and alienated whole parts of his union, something Reid never did. And I totally believe that Thatcher would not have defeated the miners if they had Jimmy Reid as their leader.

Yes your right Reid and Scargill are not in the same league. Firstly Scargill refused to compromise, unlike your Govan God, everything Scargill predicted materialised. What did Jimmy boy, think of the right wing Union of Democratic Mineworkers then ? How can you possibly suggest that if Reid led the mineworkers he would have defeated Thatcher. The scab unions where in control in Nottingham and large swaths of middle England.

is the most ridiculous and stupid thing he has ever said on here. Only a brain addled with weed could come up with that one.

I would think that this contravenes the spirit of the forum - in that it attacks the poster.
( Savaged by Dead Sheep )

[ionnsaigh]

And then his change to the SNP – well, he was not the only one that was betrayed by NuLabour. He believed in a vigorous and honest, political philosophy under the name of Socialism and looked elsewhere when he wasn’t getting it. Again, compromise is not always easy but it’s not a crime. And he may well have moved from one political party to another but never did his basic beliefs change.

Your forgetting his philosophical leap from the Communist Party to the British Labour Party. So this was a man who believed in vigorous and honest political philosophy under Socialism, yet he made the great leap forward to a party who had long shed any socialist principles, and had become a mass party of Industrial Capitalists. Ask yourself you belong to a party where Socialism is the fundamental mechanism for social change, you decide that the Labour Party offers a less radical agenda, less radical maybe - however one that offers those corrupted by power - the chance to bloom politically.
I believe that Jimmy was a victim of corruption of principles, he believed most of the guff written by Rupert and Robert.

We allowed Blair and his ilk to destroy Labour and now have the same problems as the shipyard workers had in the 70s – except there are no Jimmy Reids left!!!! Who today could develop a plan that would defeat the upcoming cruel cuts of the Tories and the spread of corporate greed?

The Labour Party rejected the ownership of the means of production - when did the Labour Party hold, that the answer to all our problems, that is to abolish the Capitalist system ? Forget about Blair Smith and all the rest of personalities, it's the party at fault. Then we get all this shite about how loyal and working Class we are - you are deluded if you think that the Labour Party represent the best interests of the Working Class - they are nothing more than a reactionary Middle Class Mob - fooling some of the people - some of the time - and not all of the people - all of the time.

[Govangirl]

Okay Ionns I’m not going to get on this merry go round, it’s pointless. I still believe Reid epitomised the values of the working man and whose vision of Govan was a working model of a decent society that transcends all politics. And I still believe that he is a man who has become a touchstone for that test of whether those values are still being maintained by any current administration.
As for your particular insight of politics, remember we have to allow for a massive polysemy in the word socialist today. It’s far too easy for you to sit in your chair and carp.

Any military historian knows that even the greatest generals sometimes failed for the lack of one brilliant major. Reid was one of my heroes – for the record, Ionns, who are yours?

[ionnsaigh]

John Maclean, Matt Lygate, Paul Cockshot.

[Govangirl]

Enough, no more! I should have known your idea of a hero was part of a 'great Scottish revolutionary' GANG that included armed robbery!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know your Mr Lygate got 24 years but is he out yet? Just so I know when he'll be starting the revolution, mind you!

I give up now!

[ionnsaigh]

Well who do you think started the Anti Poll Tax Unions in Scotland ? ( Santa Claus )
Why do you think that these particular armed robbers, received the longest sentence in Scottish legal history ?
Stick em up.

[ionnsaigh]

I was listening to Sunny Govan Radio last night - they devoted some time to the great man, with a couple of Joe Public - praising Jimmy phone calls - thrown in for good measure. Unfortunately I didn't have the courage to phone and express my opinion. Oh the romance of it all.

[Mr Plod]

I am no 'Govan Romantic' in the form that Ionns means but:

I thought his Nae Bevvy Speech was patronising to say the least, a union officials function is to represent and serve the wishes of the workers, not to replace one set of dictators with another.

is the most ridiculous and stupid thing he has ever said on here. Only a brain addled with weed could come up with that one.

And

Communist trouble maker

is exactly what I was thinking reading that tripe!


I mourn Jimmy Reid's passing with every shred of my being.

I have'nt quoted your entire post here GG but you know, that was one of the nicest pieces of praise I have ever heard anyone say in Jimmy Reids memory. All my male relatives on my mothers side worked in John Brown's Shipyard at the time Jimmy Reid fought their corner and it took great courage to step forward into the limelight and basically become a target for the bile and lies and connivings of the establishment at that time. I don't care that he had the good sense to move intelligently through the maze of corruption that was politics in those days. I don't think he saw himself as communist, labour or SNP cadre per se. I just think he knew what had to be done, how it had to be done, why it had to be done, who needed to do it and was prepared to take it on. It was really difficult in those days to get the establishment to shift on any issue because of institutianalised sectarianism, bigotry and racism and even petty rivalries within the Trades Union Movement itself.

Finally to ionnsaigh whatever. Jimmy Reid was and still is somebody to admire who is now part of scottish history and folklore - what have you done in your life that merits that kind of public credit. He was one of the good guys - end of.

And good for you GG. You managed to reply without once using foul language.