Xmas Pardons

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Xmas Pardons

Postby gizmo » Wed Dec 25, 2013 6:44 pm

Nothing to do with excessive sprout consumption.
Now that Her Majesty has seen fit to pardon Alan Turing, what other convicted criminals should we apologise to? :roll:
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Re: Xmas Pardons

Postby Govangirl » Thu Dec 26, 2013 3:11 pm

gizmo wrote:Now that Her Majesty has seen fit to pardon Alan Turing, what other convicted criminals should we apologise to? :roll:



I have taken liberties with your quote Gizmo because I see a difference between these two words. 'Pardon' is so wrong imho because it implies we need to forgive wrong-doing but personally, I think an apology is in fact due. I just don't get that all the other persecuted gay people are less deserving of any justice just because they weren't brilliant and there needs to be an apology for all. I don't see what's wrong with apologising and recognising there was an unjust law, we need more honesty that we didn't always do it right.

Still, maybe it would be better to do things right the first time? Ha ha, that would be a Christmas miracle!! :shock:
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Re: Xmas Pardons

Postby Tom B » Thu Dec 26, 2013 4:49 pm

Govangirl wrote:
gizmo wrote:Now that Her Majesty has seen fit to pardon Alan Turing, what other convicted criminals should we apologise to? :roll:



I have taken liberties with your quote Gizmo because I see a difference between these two words. 'Pardon' is so wrong imho because it implies we need to forgive wrong-doing but personally, I think an apology is in fact due. I just don't get that all the other persecuted gay people are less deserving of any justice just because they weren't brilliant and there needs to be an apology for all. I don't see what's wrong with apologising and recognising there was an unjust law, we need more honesty that we didn't always do it right.

Still, maybe it would be better to do things right the first time? Ha ha, that would be a Christmas miracle!! :shock:


With you GG on that. Biazarre though that it's a "royal" pardon, when the apology is in relation to antiquated ways of thinking and doing things that belong in the past and require to be modernised and replaced.
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Re: Xmas Pardons

Postby Govangirl » Thu Dec 26, 2013 5:31 pm

I agree Tom. Both the government and the monarchy are so glaringly out of touch with us all now. It also highlights what a stuffy anachronism royal prerogative is!
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Re: Xmas Pardons

Postby gizmo » Thu Dec 26, 2013 9:30 pm

As far as it goes, I agree. I am not too sure what is so special about Turing, why don't we issue a blanket pardon for all convicted homosexuals if it is merited.
Then while we are at it we can pardon and apologise to the unfotunates who were "shot at dawn" in WW1, including those who did run away exposing their mates to danger. What about those back in the day who were hung for stealing food to feed their children or people who the state burnt at the stake for witchcraft and cavorting with Auld Nick.
Tony Blair (proper criminal) started this crap by apologising to all and sundry for our sins in the past. Apparently we were beastly to the Maoris, we were not nice to Ind, I mean, native Americans, and I should be contrite for what my ancesters did to the slaves.
Why aint the Romans chucking sorries in my direction, the Norwegians have a bit of a cheek not throwing us a bit of aid for all the looting and pillaging and don't start me on the Japanese.
This is gesture politics and nothing else, the country is going to hell in a handcart, the economy is a disaster, we have food banks for people in this day and age and this is what we find time for.
Why should we change history to put our views on events of the past, if we pardon Turing what about the rest. Should we create a new Govt. department for this.
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Re: Xmas Pardons

Postby Shona » Fri Dec 27, 2013 10:03 am

The 'Shot at Dawn' apology was in 2008.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/4798025.stm
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Re: Xmas Pardons

Postby Govangirl » Fri Dec 27, 2013 10:18 pm

gizmo wrote: Should we create a new Govt. department for this.



Don't worry Gizmo, there will be, there will!!!!!!
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Re: Xmas Pardons

Postby EMDEE » Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:00 am

Aye, it brings back memories of the "Ministry of Silly Walks". I did think it was a bit pitiful when Tony Blair apologised for the slave trade. The man had no responsibility for it nor, I would suggest, any conscience about it.

Apart from that, I don't see how an apology is appropriate for something that was government policy at the time. The ones who actually needed to apologise were the government ministers of the time, and obviously this was an impossibility. Tony Blair was not even vicariously responsible for any of this.

An apology cannot negate a deliberate action.

Why should a small group of islands off the coast of mainland Europe become the principal world power? There is a lot more for which this country needs to apologise.

Discuss.

Sorry Bill :wink:
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Re: Xmas Pardons

Postby bill » Sat Dec 28, 2013 9:27 am

EMDEE wrote:Discuss.

Sorry Bill :wink:


No need to apologise EMDEE, I'm sure David Cameron will get to it eventually.

P.S. Good post. :wink:
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Re: Xmas Pardons

Postby gizmo » Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:39 am

Not sure where you are coming from there Emdee. I agree Bliar was pitiful with his slave trade apology, he was at his hand-wringing best at that time, only overshadowed by his "she was truly the Peoples Princess" speech.

The small group of European islands became the major power because the ruling classes at that time were better at it than everybody else. They were children of their time, just good at it, slightly better than the French, Spanish, Dutch etc.
If an apology was needed at all, it should be from the "great and the good" not issued on my behalf, checked the family tree, it would appear my lot didn't benefit much directly. So why is there a lot more we are to be sorry for?

I do believe however a genuine apology can negate actions, but note the word genuine. :)
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