Fleming's Land

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Re: Fleming's Land

Postby glenn » Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:55 pm

Well I'll be fleming dashed !! :roll: :<>
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Re: Fleming's Land

Postby 4th gen Suthen' » Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:19 pm

jeezo, all this started by something I posted over 4 years ago!
Yep, once it is on the net it is there for ever!

All very interesting though.
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Re: Fleming's Land

Postby Iain » Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:02 pm

It's incredible when I think that 3xG Granddad Neil McArthur probably spoke, or at least saw him. (born Campbeltown 1795-1872)

Anecdote: During the New Year festivities, my parents were often out with friends and getting drunk…, and it was my Grandmother that did the baby sitting. (53 Longrow) On Hogmanay, my brother, sister and Grandmother would walk to the "Steel Houses" (Ralston Road) to spend the evening with her sister. At the time, my aunt worked at a tobacconist on Main Street, (SPQR I think) …, and as grandma smoked like a chimney, she'd stop there to buy a few packets for the evening…., then off we'd go ! It was always my job to carry the lump of coal. (for those overseas who're not acquainted with the custom, this is done to ensure that the recipient has a warm house for the year to come…, "Lang may yer lum reek"!)

Anyway, leaving the shop, we'd then walk up the street towards Castle Hill…, and in doing so, we'd automatically pass in front of Flemings Land. I'm just wondering if she knew that HER Great Grandfather once lived there ? (somehow, I've a sneaky feeling she must have known !)
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Re: Fleming's Land

Postby glenn » Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:10 pm

Iain, I know your going back in time , but the only tobacconist I can recall on Main St. was Daniels. Although small,the shop was the smartest on the street (along with Dan Morrison's).It had plate glass display windows angled at each side of the entrance before you went through into the tiny shop. Paul McCartney used to buy his cigs there; he'd pull up outside in his old landy or whatever it was ( not a car buff ) and get his supply in. They were wholesalers as well and had a big old-fashioned warehouse next to where Woolies was. Don't know whether that's the same firm you are referring to.

On the subject of the google pic.of Fleming's Land - the post office & sorting office moved to Castlehill in 1966 (the year McCartney bought the farm) and I have a feeling that the P.O.was previously in that building on the pic at Fleming's Land.
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Re: Fleming's Land

Postby EMDEE » Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:06 pm

glenn wrote:On the subject of the google pic.of Fleming's Land - the post office & sorting office moved to Castlehill in 1966 (the year McCartney bought the farm) and I have a feeling that the P.O.was previously in that building on the pic at Fleming's Land.


You're slightly too far up the street there Glenn. Here's the old Post Office at the corner of Main Street and Argyll Street:

http://maps.google.co.uk/?ie=UTF8&ll=55 ... 2,,0,-2.43

Didn't realise it was as far back as 1966! :<>
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Re: Fleming's Land

Postby glenn » Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:27 pm

Yep, that's it, opposite the club. I mind it now. The old brain cells !! Thanks EMDEE !
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Re: Fleming's Land

Postby EMDEE » Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:47 am

Just as an aside, In my younger days used to wonder why this building was named "Fleming's Land". I have since discovered that in the Scots language a "land" is a tenement building.
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Re: Fleming's Land

Postby Iain » Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:38 am

glenn wrote:Iain, I know your going back in time , but the only tobacconist I can recall on Main St. was Daniels. Don't know whether that's the same firm you are referring to.


You're so right Glenn…, it's all coming back to me. Daniel's ! Before the Beetles found themselves in the hit parade, she had moved south to Petersfield in England and worked for a tobacconist called SPQR. Her name was May Black, perhaps you remember her ? A well-built lady as Tony Hancock would say ! :lol:

Edmee…, that's extremely interesting ! Even although I lived for some time in the Hebrides, I don't speak the Gaelic.

When researching Neil McArthur at the time, (independent of the 1841 census) I found historical references relating to a "poor-house." Now…, just read below what your comment has unveiled !

"The main theory is that Glasgow Corporation of old was under the impression that the Schemie Bam was a product of the Gaelic speaking Teuchter tribe from the North and similarly Gaelic speaking Irish Tribe from an Island over the Irish sea, forced to descend on Glasgow looking for food, work and housing (the reasons why are complex, but probably have something to do with a band of rich Anglo/Scots landownery type people, who would sell their own Granny to make a fast buck). (Fleming ?? :wink: )
Anyway, these people were housed in something called a 'tenement' (GAELIC for shite-hole, though modern 21st century gaelic roughly translates to overpriced-shite-hole-in-the-west-end). Many of these tribespeople were killed off when they were forced to fight on behalf of the English Aristocracy in two 20th century wars."

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... clnk&gl=be
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Re: Fleming's Land

Postby EMDEE » Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:55 am

Just had a look at that link. Don't think it's a particularly authoritative site. It looks as if it could have been written by Rab C Nesbitt.
:?
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Re: Fleming's Land

Postby bill » Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:04 am

EMDEE wrote:Just had a look at that link. Don't think it's a particularly authoritative site. :?


Emdee,I think the clue is at the top of the linked article where it states......"Some of what I write will be a little tongue in cheek, so be prepared to have that wee pinch of salt handy. Scroll down and enjoy!" :D

EMDEE wrote:It looks as if it could have been written by Rab C Nesbitt. :?


Surely you over estimate the bam-pot's literary skills. :D
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Re: Fleming's Land

Postby EMDEE » Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:11 am

Quite.
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Re: Fleming's Land

Postby Iain » Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:28 am

I've an update concerning the Flemings Land "poor-house." (which is now obviously not the case)

I received a message from a cyber-friend in Dumbarton. She gave me all my ancestors starting from Great-Granddad Robert McFarlane McArthur…, finishing with Neil McArthur. (born 1795 in Tyree)

According to this census report, and when answering the census questions, he obviously took pride in the fact that his shoes were made for town use, as opposed to farming footwear…, because he added "town" to the term shoe maker.

• Benchman: A shoemaker who cuts the leather for boots and chairs.
• Boot Closer: Someone who stitches the leathers and uppers to the soles.
• Clogger: Maker of clogs..., wooden shoes.
• Cordiner or shoemaker: Manufacturer of shoes and boots. (from the French "cordonnier")
• Cobbler: Repairer of shoes.

Now, as the 1841 census confirms he was living at Flemings Land…, it obviously wasn't a poor-house because he had a trade. On the contrary, being such a skilled craftsman he probably manufactured for Fleming himself, because; she went on…, "when Neil began to prosper, he built his own house which he named 'Tyree,' after his birthplace." Wow…, if only I could find that house, as it's probably still standing today !

She also added that there's a Neil and Sandra McArthur who have an ironmongery shop in Campbeltown…, and apparently we must be very distantly related as he is a 4xG Grandson of our "Flemings Land Neil." Incredible ! If Britain had the same laws as us here in Belgium, he'd be entitled to a title because of his family being the seventh generation in the same town. Over here, he'd be officially entitled to add a "De" to his name…, "Neil McArthur De Campbeltown." (a capital "D," because a small "d" means royalty)

If I was in his "shoes," I'd inform the local newspapers and hope the Town Council would react with a bottle of "Napoleon" champagne :lol: …, even if it was simply to get some good, free publicity for his shop ! Ho Hum ! :wink:
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Re: Fleming's Land

Postby Isa » Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:31 am

Iain, a great post and really interesting. I always thought the "Poor Hoose" was out at Witchburn where the long stay Hospital was before being turned into council offices?

Maybe the local postmen can help with the house Tyree

Iain wrote:She also added that there's a Neil and Sandra McArthur who have an ironmongery shop in Campbeltown…


Neil and Dorothy McArthur run a garden shop in Union Street, is that who you mean?
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Re: Fleming's Land

Postby dunc99 » Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:13 am

I seem to remember a house called Tyree at Low Askomil, somewhere between the saling club and Pierview. It belonged to a man that ran a piggery. The pigs were kept out on the Moss Road, near what was then the local tip. I also seem to remember that he was a McArthur, but then again my memory may be playing tricks.

As I have been out of the town for nearly 40 years, I'm sure that a local can give better info.

Added later:

I have just looked on Google Streetview. The house before Pierview on Low Askomil is called Tiree (note different spelling). Could this be the same house?
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Re: Fleming's Land

Postby Iain » Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:09 pm

dunc99 wrote:I seem to remember a house called Tyree at Low Askomil, somewhere between the saling club and Pierview. It belonged to a man that ran a piggery. The pigs were kept out on the Moss Road, near what was then the local tip. I also seem to remember that he was a McArthur, but then again my memory may be playing tricks.

As I have been out of the town for nearly 40 years, I'm sure that a local can give better info.

Added later:

I have just looked on Google Streetview. The house before Pierview on Low Askomil is called Tiree (note different spelling). Could this be the same house?


Thanks Dunc..., I'll try and do some research. By the way..., Tyree is how they spell it today, nonetheless, as the house is about 200 years old, it should be Tiree. This in itself is an important find.

PS Something strange: Neil's son James and grandson Robert were butchers ! In the 1891 census, Robert declared he was a Pork Butcher and Ceffal Merchant. (don't know what Ceffal means !) And what's more, I remember my grandmother keeping kitchen food waste for a man who had pigs ! :)

PPS Thanks to Nomad..., is this "Pierview"?
http://maps.google.fr/maps?f=q&source=s ... .52,,2,5.9
Last edited by Iain on Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:26 am, edited 3 times in total.
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