So celtic were the only team not to have a minutes silence

[The modfather]

at the weekend?

Opinions on this'?

In my opinion, it is an absolute scandal. The fact is that they knew that the "fans" who were holding a protest about having a poppy day would show them up, and decided to mask it with a minutes applause.

Now, dont get me wrong. i understand in modern society, that it is seen as the done thing to have a minutes applause, Some celtic fans have described this as the new "celtic way". Since when? They had a minutes silence when the pope died,but not on remembrance day.

I dont know whats worse, the idiots who would have spoiled the silence or the SFA for pandering to them

[Hume]

I probably agree with you modfather but I'm not exactly outraged, nor do I think it was a scandal.

But, I think the applause should only be employed in celebration of someone's life, rather than in rememberance if you get what I mean. I'm not saying don't remember the celebrated or celebrate the remembered, just that certain events deserve a dignified silence, rather than applause.

[peenkles21]

Biggoted clowns.

That said, 1 of the ideals fought for over the years has been for a "free" society with freedom of speech and expresion. So good one them, let them have their say, and im sure the world will know how small minded they all are.

Just remember where that right came from.

[The Hitman]

Celtic and the SFA are a disgrace for pandering to the bigots.

[4th gen Suthen']

So, will the SPL give Celtic a home game next year on the 7th/8th November so they can insist on the minute's applause...as it now seems to be the "Celtic way" ?

Or will Celtic be allocated an away game when it is not their call as to whether it is a silence or applause?

Serious question....the SPL will have to make that decision then factor it into their super duper computer as well.........

For what it's worth....well, it is obvious why Celtic wanted the applause....I am not sure, though, if the SPL should have sanctioned it.
Does not look good for Celtic either way. Likely the applause was the lesser of two evils.

The rest of Britain and the world in general are just sadly shaking their heads at the situation that prevails in the West of Scotland.

Did anybody try and explain it all to Cooboy Troy yet?

[Sheik Yir Erse]

Modfather - your facts are incorrect, but you wouldn't want that to get in the way of your headline now would you. What's your opinion on the SFL clubs who did NOT have 1 minutes silence on Saturday? There were a few.

Anyway back to the point of your outrage. Celtic have been having 1 minutes applause for the past 3 years. Personally I don't agree with it to commemorate the dead, it is inappropriate. You are exactly correct in that they chose this method to stop them being embarrassed by the 'protesters' who would no doubt disrupt the peace. I wish they had been a bit more up front about their reasons, but they probably don't particularly want to draw any more attention to it.

You can choose to agree or disagree but no amount of common sense is going to get through to those who have grown up with a pathological hatred of the British army, that will convince them into observing the minutes silence. The poppy is a very divisive symbol to some, especially if you grew up in a Republican stonghold of somewhere like (London)Derry. There is an element within the Celtic support namely the Green Brigade and Celts Against Imperialism, who are trying to have John Reid removed as Chairman and continually brand him as a War Criminal. As someone said these people have the right to protest, whether you agree with their point of view or not. Personally I think Celtic were probably right *not* to present them with the opportunity to disrupt what 59,900 other people were quite happy to support. It would have been a cheap publicity stunt that would have resulted in far greater media exposure for CAI and the Green Brigade. The 100 supporters who left the match after 10 minutes to protest outside the ground were booed by other supporters who witnessed them leaving.

It's a pretty sad indictment but unfortunately millions of poor souls died in the wars to make sure people like that could have freedom of speech and expression, we should just be grateful that. Thanks to them we're able to have different opinions and hold protests about these.

But I also have an opinion that the minutes silence shouldn't be observed when it's hee-haw to do with football. There are two specific times set aside for this notably rememberance Sunday and today. So we should commemorate the war dead at these points.

To be honest I'm getting pretty fed up having minutes silences and applause every second week at football matches. Fair enough when it's someone connected with the club, but I don't have much time for football being used as bandwagons for Sept 11, the Soham Murders, Tsunami, July 7th, etc. All terrible tragic events, but I go to football matches to watch football, if I wanted to commemorate these events I wouldn't choose to do it at a football stadium. We don't do it anywhere else, so why at football? If I went swimming on Saturday, would I and all the other swimmers have been expected to observe a minutes silence before getting into the pool? Don't think so! I don't even think there was a minutes silence at Murrayfield before the All Blacks game (someone correct me if I'm wrong on that one, but I don't recall it) so why football?

Equally I wonder how Andreas Hinkel, Shunsuke Nakamura and Koki Mizuno felt when we're roundly applauding the people who may have killed their ancestors. No place in football - leave it to it's own specific dedicated ceremonies.

To answer 4th Gens question about fixtures I don't think it actually happens at football matches every year, I think this year it was done because it was the 90th anniversary.

Finally Modfather it's very difficult to take the moral high ground as a supporter of either side of the Old Firm, so ask yourself this - how exactly did the Rangers fans who normally give Nazi salutes observed the silence? As most of the supporters of other clubs will tell you, we're just opposite sides of the same shitey coin.

[Mary G]

Very good, thoughtful post, Sheik. Got me thinking ...

I reckon that it was after Princess Diana died that the more public commemoration started, with silences being observed in all sorts of situations where previously there would have been none. And for a wider range of tragic events too.

I agree that it is odd that football should be singled out at 3pm, or whenever the match started. Theatres, cinemas, concerts and other 'crowd' events with a specific start time did not have such a silence. So why football, and why now, when this was not the case years ago?

[the ringmaster]

Finally Modfather it's very difficult to take the moral high ground as a supporter of either side of the Old Firm, so ask yourself this - how exactly did the Rangers fans who normally give Nazi salutes observed the silence? As most of the supporters of other clubs will tell you, we're just opposite sides of the same shitey coin.

Sheik its not hard to take the moral high ground on this one not hard at all ........

[Sheik Yir Erse]

Sheik its not hard to take the moral high ground on this one not hard at all .......

I appreciate that's how you feel Ringmaster, and I was clearly trying to be a wee bit controversial to highlight my point.

Unfortunately the minority support of our respective clubs have always conspired in the past to provide the opposite fans with the ability to take the moral high ground. However I believe that history has shown it generally doesn't last that long, until those currently occupying that high ground come skiteing down from it on their arses - generally as a result of something equally as reprehensible committed by their own fans. I'm sure there will be a minutes silence, at some point in the future for whatever reason, that 100 Rangers fans may feel strongly enough about to try and disrupt. I think Rangers would therefore be within their rights not to provide any platform to allow these individuals to embarrass the club, the rest of their supporters and possibly the country as a whole. You know that as an old firm fan - Karma is indeed a bitch!

For what it's worth I don't agree with them at all, but they have their right to protest (as reprehensible as it may appear to others) and they did it in a peaceful fashion.

I just wish we could keep minutes silences away from football unless it's for footballing people.

[the ringmaster]

I agree with you Sheik but just find it rather depressing that we always seem to pander to a few mindless idiots.

[Campbell A]

Really well constructed post Shiek, totally agree that the only time there should be a minutes silence is when the event is related directly to the teams involved, like when Eddie Thomson of Dundee Utd died recently. It's getting to the point that a clubs decision whether or not to hold a silence for events of national significance becomes a stick to beat it with. I can see why Celtic held an applause instead of the silence, imagine the mess it would have become when the fans respecting the silence began to boo the fans who were booing, it would have finished up on the National news.

I am on a training course in Staffordshire at the minute and yesterday we were asked if we wanted to observe the 2 minute silence at 11am which we all agreed to. Radio 2 broadcast the exact time of the silence beginning and I spent the time really thinking about the men who had lived and died through that hell in France, Belgium etc.

I don't believe the silence observed at the football grounds would have meant much to the people taking part, by the sound of the fallout it appears most were more interested in what Celtic were doing, thus negating the whole reason for holding the silence. The point I'm making is really to back up Shiek, the armistice silence is far more poignant when held on either remembrance Sunday or on the 11th hour of the 11th day.

[Sheik Yir Erse]

I agree with you Sheik but just find it rather depressing that we always seem to pander to a few mindless idiots.

Ringmaster I'm sure both sets of fans would happily get rid of their respective 100 embarrassing 'supporters' - unfortunately we're lumbered with the bad publicity they generate. You're exactly right - we should NOT be pandering to these people.

[Sheik Yir Erse]

I can see why Celtic held an applause instead of the silence, imagine the mess it would have become when the fans respecting the silence began to boo the fans who were booing, it would have finished up on the National news.

Campbell you're right, the only thing that disappoints me about Celtic is that they tried to dress it up as "this is how we do it now" when they could have been a bit more honest about it and admitted to the problem with this particular element of support.

As they tell you in most of those 'meetings' I attend, admitting to the fact that you have a problem is the first step on the road to recovery

PS. You still on that Trainee Millionaire's course?

[The Hitman]

I agree with a lot of what Sheik say's, although I still maintain Celtic, or any other team for that matter should not be permitted to have a minutes applause, rather than a minutes silence.

Most other team's in the country honour people in the traditional way, why should they be treated differently?

The fact 100 fans were protesting whilst the other 59,900 applauded shows that it is a minority of morons. (and yes every club has them) I would far rather have seen a minutes silence and the let these minless idiots shame themselves. They would have been far easier to identify. Once identified, they could be monitored and when caught chanting sectarian garbage in the future, banned for life. A minutes applause merely gives these people a blanket in which to hide under, therefore this problem will remain indefinately.

I think we will continue to see a minutes silence at football matches, however I agree with Sheik in that they should be kept for people associated with football and members of the Royal Family.

[Hume]

Do you think a minute's silence for a member of the Royal Family would be better respected than one for the war dead by these morons you refer to Hitman?

Are Celtic being treated any differently? Surely there was no obligation, well maybe an obligation but certainly no legislation to do it either way? If this had been Stoke City or Wigan that held a minute's applause would this thread have been started?

It seems to me this is, generally speaking, just another example of the petty point scoring by Old Firm fans against one another. Sure, some people's feelings on this issue will run deeper than that but often its more about trying to make out 'the other half is worse than us' and 'aye, but what about them when they.....'

Hitman, if as you say Celtic went with the silence and it was ruined by the protesters, would you have come on here to castigate them? It seems Celtic could not do the right thing either way here. A silence gives the protesters a platform to be heard and perhaps more airtime because of it, yet the applause route only gets people talking about how the protest was masked. The only thing Celtic FC is really guilty of is not coming out with the real reason for the applause, which no-one is really in any doubt over.

Sheik is right though and I hadn't ever called in to question the fact armistice tributes were witnessed at football grounds at the weekend. I suppose I just accepted it as the done thing. Mary, I think it was, it right too when talking about how tributes are not observed at other events, so why football. These should be reserved for the official 11am slot. I think this is the first opinion I now hold that has been formed from reading this forum, feels quite good actually!