Nacho Nova

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Re: Nacho Nova

Postby Hume » Tue Oct 28, 2008 2:08 pm

The modfather wrote:The irony of it all is he is wanting to repay the country where he gained his fame and fortune.

Unlike a couple of others who decide to turn their backs on the country they come from...



I actually though you were talking about Boyd there til I scrolled down....but that's another debate.

If Novo wants to repay Scotland for giving him fame and fortune he can go and do his coaching badges and teach the kids after he stops playing. As for representing Scotland, then its a no from me.

But there is an interesting debate here on where lines should be drawn on what qualifies you to represent a country. Clearly Novo can represent Scotland if he aquires a UK passport but it should not be a question of citizenship or passports.

If he genuinely feels Scottish then I'm happy for him but coming to Dundee at the age of 21 (?) is too late, considering the average footballers career, to opt to represent Scotland. But, since someone mentioned line drawing I think there is merit for permitting someone who moved to a new country at a VERY early age to represent that country. I'm certainly talking pre-school age, maybe even as early as 3. Clearly a child in this position will have been schooled in that country and will invariably feel more connection with where they were brought up than their birth country or where their parents were from. Maybe it depends on how they were brought up too?

I think that is more of a case than the footballer who moves as part of his job to a new country.

I would also prefer to see the grandparent rule scrapped as it can on occassions cast the net too wide. But, as things stand you can't blame players and associations for using the rules to their advantage.

Ideally, I would like the players that take the field for Scotland to be born here and failing that to have been brought up 'Scottish' by their Scotish parent(s), where ever that may be. Above all, I want to at least imagine that if they weren't on the field they'd be in the stand supporting the team.

If we start to see an increase in this passporting loop hole then International football will be devalued and probably die.
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Re: Nacho Nova

Postby A Horse called Juan Face » Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:26 pm

Novo came out two or three years ago and said he wanted to play for Spain, so that should automatically rule him out of playing for any other country. I know Turkey have a Brazilian now and Spain have Senna under the same rules, and I suppose you can count Deco, though he may well have Portuguese heritage. A lot of people are using Podolski as a similar example, but one of his parents is German so he's well within his rights. If Novo'd never said he wanted to play for Spain, I wouldn't mind, but he has so his tea's out.
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Re: Nacho Nova

Postby hugh » Fri Oct 31, 2008 2:16 am

And when I think about it again, I realise how stupid my post was. Yeah, it's a compliment that he wants to play for Scotland and I think he could make a difference. But that's not the point. He's not Scottish. And the point of internationals is for footballers to represent their own country.
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Re: Nacho Nova

Postby Hume » Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:59 am

That's exactly it hugh, a passport alone does not determine one's nationality.

Listening to Real Radio this week (I know, I should know better), the follow on debate has focussed on how using a passport as justification for international selection could lead us in to dangerous teritory. There are probably more than 60 million people in the world with UK passports, does that mean thay can all play for Scotland?

Why can someone born in Madrid/Seville or where ever represent Scotland if they acquire a passport, but someone born in Manchester, Belfast or Cardiff (with no Scottish parent/grandparent), who may have had one since birth, not?

The only thing that has prevented this from happening until now is a gentleman's agreement between the four FAs, but how long before NI or Wales try to field someone we have overlooked, or we do it with someone from Newcastle? Apparently FIFA would have no problem with this, infact they'd probably see it as a step towards removing our indivudual status.

I'm not totally serious here about Scotland, England, Wales & NI using anyone they wish from the UK. I suppose I'm just trying to point out where I don't agree with the Novo situaion, albeit it is not specifically about him.
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Re: Nacho Nova

Postby The Hitman » Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:22 pm

Nacho Novo would be one of the first names on my team sheet. He is the sort of player Scotland is crying out for, every game he puts his heart and soul into it, chasing down lost causes and fighting for every ball and he's proven scorer at the highest level.

Some of the Scotland Squad could do with learning from Novo and the way he plays the game. His attitude is first class. Do you think the Morrisons of this world would have chosen Scotland if England asked them to play?? No, therefore whether he wanted to play for Spain or not is not an issue.

Scotland has been down the mothers aunties dog's grannies sister was Scottish route, so any morals they had are already gone. What makes Scotland any better than Spain or Brazil?? They're not, possibly because they are not open enough to change. If World Cup Winners and European Champions can do it, why can't a wee diddy team like Scotland do it?

A year or two ago we had a German manager and a team full of Englishmen FFS, all those jumping on the George Peat bandwagon are talking absolute pash. Any player who is eligible and the manager deems good enough to improve the team should be picked - end of.

Would you all rather we had Nigel the cart horse Quashie playing, or the lion heart Mathhew Elliott?

We won't pick you Novo, but hey once your son's old enough we MIGHT pick him. NONSENSE

NACHO NOVO - you came here, worked, raised a family, payed your taxes and have had death threats from people in this country, yet are still willing to pull on the dark blue and give your all. But no, we won't let you, we prefer the englishmen to represent us. Oh and another thing that goes against you is that you did not come to this country till the ripe old age of 21, therefore deemed too old to represent Scotland, we have plenty of fine young specimens who are the future of our International Football like Davie Weir, Christian Dailly and Paul Hartley.

Oh and did we mention yer not as good as Derek Riordon?? (Who has been plying his trade for two years in the reserves)

GET A GRIP! :roll:
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Re: Nacho Nova

Postby Campbell A » Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:44 pm

The Hitman wrote:Nacho Novo would be one of the first names on my team sheet. He is the sort of player Scotland is crying out for, every game he puts his heart and soul into it, chasing down lost causes and fighting for every ball and he's proven scorer at the highest level.

Some of the Scotland Squad could do with learning from Novo and the way he plays the game. His attitude is first class. Do you think the Morrisons of this world would have chosen Scotland if England asked them to play?? No, therefore whether he wanted to play for Spain or not is not an issue.

Scotland has been down the mothers aunties dog's grannies sister was Scottish route, so any morals they had are already gone. What makes Scotland any better than Spain or Brazil?? They're not, possibly because they are not open enough to change. If World Cup Winners and European Champions can do it, why can't a wee diddy team like Scotland do it?

A year or two ago we had a German manager and a team full of Englishmen FFS, all those jumping on the George Peat bandwagon are talking absolute pash. Any player who is eligible and the manager deems good enough to improve the team should be picked - end of.

Would you all rather we had Nigel the cart horse Quashie playing, or the lion heart Mathhew Elliott?

We won't pick you Novo, but hey once your son's old enough we MIGHT pick him. NONSENSE

NACHO NOVO - you came here, worked, raised a family, payed your taxes and have had death threats from people in this country, yet are still willing to pull on the dark blue and give your all. But no, we won't let you, we prefer the englishmen to represent us. Oh and another thing that goes against you is that you did not come to this country till the ripe old age of 21, therefore deemed too old to represent Scotland, we have plenty of fine young specimens who are the future of our International Football like Davie Weir, Christian Dailly and Paul Hartley.

Oh and did we mention yer not as good as Derek Riordon?? (Who has been plying his trade for two years in the reserves)

GET A GRIP! :roll:


What tabloid was that guff hoovered from???
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Re: Nacho Nova

Postby Mod7 » Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:14 am

Campbell A wrote:
The Hitman wrote:Nacho Novo would be one of the first names on my team sheet. ................................................

Some of the Scotland Squad could ..............................

Scotland has been down the mothers aunties dog's grannies sister was Scottish route, ......................................

A year or two ago we had a German manager and ....................................

Would you all rather we had Nigel the cart horse Quashie playing, or the lion heart Mathhew Elliott?

We won't pick you Novo, but hey once your son's old enough we MIGHT pick him. NONSENSE

NACHO NOVO - you came here, worked, ....................................

Oh and did we mention yer not as good as Derek Riordon?? (Who has been plying his trade for two years in the reserves)

GET A GRIP! :roll:


What tabloid was that guff hoovered from???


In the interests of fairness Campbell.. care to elaborate on why you think it is guff?? Hitman has expressed an opinion, the least you can do is explain why you disagree. :lol:
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Re: Nacho Nova

Postby Ship called Dignity » Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:13 pm

Mod7 wrote:In the interests of fairness Campbell.. care to elaborate on why you think it is guff?? Hitman has expressed an opinion, the least you can do is explain why you disagree. :lol:


Why?

I think the Hitman's opinion explains why it is guff....

Might as well change the rules and that'll be the end of International football. Just because we had a German manager and english cart horses doesn't mean it is right either.

He is Spanish ffs.
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Re: Nacho Nova

Postby Govangirl » Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:37 pm

Hume wrote:Ideally, I would like the players that take the field for Scotland to be born here and failing that to have been brought up 'Scottish' by their Scotish parent(s), where ever that may be. Above all, I want to at least imagine that if they weren't on the field they'd be in the stand supporting the team.


Mmmmmmmm, let me say first that I know nothing about football but I have enjoyed the discussion on this and I REALLY liked The Hitman's non-guff post.

Saying that I am totally confused by Hume's comments. My sons were born in England to two Scottish parents. It bemuses me that I could have brought them up 'Scottish'. How ridiculous. They were always aware their parents were Scottish due to the accents, the regular trips up North to see grannies, grandpas, cousins, aunties and uncles, etc., the Hogmanays, their Scottish names, etc. etc. etc. but how could I have 'brought them up Scottish'? Seriously? They have always supported Scotland (and Rangers) and have been to quite a few games. My eldest plays lacrosse and was recently invited to play abroad for England but despite his love of the game, there was no way, he claimed, he would play for England as he didn't consider himself English. If any of them have children who want to play their sport for Scotland their heritage should be enough for them to do exactly that. I know there's not a lot of difference in that and what you are saying Hume but I don't get the 'bringing them up' comment, I'm afraid.
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Re: Nacho Nova

Postby The Hitman » Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:09 am

Ship called Dignity wrote:
Mod7 wrote:In the interests of fairness Campbell.. care to elaborate on why you think it is guff?? Hitman has expressed an opinion, the least you can do is explain why you disagree. :lol:


Why?

I think the Hitman's opinion explains why it is guff....

Might as well change the rules and that'll be the end of International football. Just because we had a German manager and english cart horses doesn't mean it is right either.

He is Spanish ffs.


What's your point Ship? Are you discriminating against someone just because of their bloodline? Fifa rules mean Novo would be eligible, just like the Elliotts and the Quashie's (who should never have worn the jersey because they weren't good enough.)

Scotland and it's supporters have ideas WAY above their station as this thread demonstrates!
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Re: Nacho Nova

Postby The Hitman » Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:20 am

Campbell A wrote:
What tabloid was that guff hoovered from???


Are you saying I should work for a tabloid? End of the day Campbell A (poetry aswell as tabloid writing, no bad eh) you are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine, why Scotland have made an agreement with the other "home" nations is beyond me. Stand on your own feet, make decisions and who cares if it gets folks backs up, but utilise every loophole and make the team stronger.

Novo won't play for Scotland, granted, so we will wait till it be becomes commonplace (which it will) until we start to cap non bloodline players. Instead of taking the lead, we are always at the tail end of things, due to short sightedness and sheer bloody mindness.

We will continue to shoot ourselves in the foot and be a nobody of football as long as this mindset remains.
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Re: Nacho Nova

Postby Hume » Mon Nov 03, 2008 10:33 am

Govangirl, I don't think you need to feel confused. Your own example is exactly the type of thing I'm talking about - your children would be 100% entitled to represent Scotland, I hope I didn't give you any other impression.

Sometimes the use of language can confuse on here. Clearly your son, whether you have intended it or not identifies with being Scottish and not English as shown by the fact he would not feel right representing the country where he has lived all his life.

But, I feel that a grandparent, or even four is not enough when it comes to international football. This is not an assessment on how proud one should feel about their heritage, I talking purely about international football. There will be thousands of people in American etc who will have Scottish heritage, but should they be allowed to represent Scotland, No. It is not a strong enough link.

If your son wants his son to play football for Scotland he'll need to do what Gordon McQueen did when playing for Man Utd. I might be getting a few facts wrong here, but I'm sure when his wife went in to labour he jumped in the car with her and drove to Dumfries.
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Re: Nacho Nova

Postby Mod7 » Mon Nov 03, 2008 12:53 pm

Ship called Dignity wrote:
Mod7 wrote:In the interests of fairness Campbell.. care to elaborate on why you think it is guff?? Hitman has expressed an opinion, the least you can do is explain why you disagree. :lol:


Why?

I think the Hitman's opinion explains why it is guff....


Look forward to reading the "thats pish" in response to posts now SCD. No need for an explanation as to why the respondent disagrees, just a simple, Thats guff, thats crap, thats pish.. !! :roll: (or maybe thats how Obama and MaCain disagree as well. Don't remember any of them being quoted as reponding with a "Sorry senator, but, thats guff" :lol: )
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Re: Nacho Nova

Postby Ship called Dignity » Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:57 pm

The Hitman wrote:
Ship called Dignity wrote:Why?

I think the Hitman's opinion explains why it is guff....

Might as well change the rules and that'll be the end of International football. Just because we had a German manager and english cart horses doesn't mean it is right either.

He is Spanish ffs.


What's your point Ship? Are you discriminating against someone just because of their bloodline? Fifa rules mean Novo would be eligible, just like the Elliotts and the Quashie's (who should never have worn the jersey because they weren't good enough.)

Scotland and it's supporters have ideas WAY above their station as this thread demonstrates!


Sore heid response? :lol: :lol: :lol: :wink:

Blah, blah, blah - heard enough pish from you on this subject last night. :wink:
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Re: Nacho Nova

Postby Govangirl » Tue Nov 04, 2008 1:03 am

Ship called Dignity wrote:Take Juan Face for example. It is sheer destiny that he will meet, fall in love and marry an Argentinian volleyball player while staying down under :shock: . His son will be born in Australia and name Juanmacdona and will grow up to be the greatest footballer the world has ever seen. Now I for one want to see him playing in Scotland colours at Hampden! :wink:


Aye, too true. We wumman need a Colin Farrell looker in the Scottish team!!! :wink:

Hume wrote: but I'm sure when his wife went in to labour he jumped in the car with her and drove to Dumfries.


It's an awfae long way fur a wifie tae haud it in aw the way frae Margate! No, to me, the Grandparent's rule makes sense. Keep it.
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