Scottish Water Sewerage Options

[John S]

Scottish Water and SEPA will meet with the Campbeltown Sewerage Task Force on the 28th July at 7.30pm in the Town hall. The agenda will be posted on the sewerage thread in due course.

It is Scottish Waters intention to present a series of potential options to solve the pollution problem in Campbeltown loch, and the town its self caused by the failure of the new sewerage system to cope with storm water.

This will be the first opportunity to openly question these proposed solutions and as such the Sewerage Taskforce is preparing questions for the meeting. The meeting will be open to observers and time will be allocated for public questions however this is likely to be only the precursor to public consultation. The community council have already indicated that they intend to hold a public meeting at a future date.

Whilst it is difficult to predict the questions which will be thrown up by these options it would be useful if those of you interested would post here anything which you are currently burning to ask either Scottish Water or SEPA. – maybe we already have the answer?

It will be important on a night with a series of options, to focus on relevant questions. It would also help if people have thought about the kind of solution that is acceptable to them. By way of illustration the following questions, while simplistic, will help you focus.

NOW HERE IS A PUBLIC HEALTH WARNING - THIS QUESTION AND THE RESULT OF THIS POLL ARE FOR ILLUSTRATION ONLY - THEY DO NOT REPRESENT ANY COLLECTIVE OPINION OR LIMIT ON THE SCOPE OF A POTENTIAL SOLUTION – JUST A LAXATIVE FOR DISCUSSION

John S – my phone is off the hook

[Big Craig]

Surely the absolute very minimum that is acceptable is option 1, with option 3 being the ideal.

[WC1]

A thank-you to John S for his questions about possible solutions to the town’s sewage disposal problems. I hope they’re just a starting point, however.

The real starting point for all this was the sewage system we had that worked, before Scottish Water replaced it with one that didn’t. Why did they replace it? Because it discharged raw sewage into the sea and that was going to become illegal. The solution to the fact that their first solution doesn’t work? To discharge raw sewage into the sea, on the other side of the island from the first discharge point. The only answer anyone - including Scottish Water - should give to John’s questions is therefore that no untreated sewage should find its way into any local marine environment. Any solution that includes the discharge of raw sewage into the sea anywhere is going to run into the same issue of illegality that led to the new system being installed in the first place.

What happens if they go, still, for a discharge into Kildalloig Bay? You’re going to have a huge tank at the ferry terminal within feet of people’s back windows, with 20 feet high ventillation pipes letting out “odour”. With that there will be an emergency discharge pipe into the loch at the ferry terminal. The pipe at the War Memorial will still discharge in storm conditions and we’ll also have another at the ferry terminal at the New Quay doing the same. And Kildalloig Bay andf the Dhorlin will also be polluted all the year round.

Only about 28% of the area’s sewage gets to the existing sewage works at present. What are the odds that the big pipe that takes the other 72% to Kildalloig Bay won’t eventually just have ANOTHER sewage works stuck on the end of it. It makes sense - more sewage will be going down there than to the existing plant. What will that look like in one of the most scenic parts of the area? And what will it cost?

How about a fourth question John. “Should Scottish Water be made to come up with a fix for the exisiting system that actually gets it to work?”.

I have another. “Should the directors of Scottish Water be made to pay back the £100,000 bonuses they’ve awarded themselves over recent years until they come up with an acceptable fix to campbeltown’s sewage problems?”. Yes folks - they awarded themselves £100,000 each for the past two years as a ‘performance bonus’. You couldn’t make it up.

[Ship called Dignity]

Good post WC1

With regards

Only about 28% of the area’s sewage gets to the existing sewage works at present. What are the odds that the big pipe that takes the other 72% to Kildalloig Bay won’t eventually just have ANOTHER sewage works stuck on the end of it. It makes sense - more sewage will be going down there than to the existing plant. What will that look like in one of the most scenic parts of the area? And what will it cost?

I thought the Kildalloig proposal was scrubbed?

[Jeanette]

[/quote]I thought the Kildalloig proposal was scrubbed? [/quote]

Davie

If the idea was scrubbed, then the Kilkerran residents group who call themselves "Kintyre residents Against Pollution" would also be scrubbed. Mrs Ellis Davaar House, admitted they had formed as an ad hoc group only to fight the pipe going down Kilkerran road. So as Krap are still buoyant I would assume so is the idea of a pipe going down Kilkerran Road. Of course I could stand corrected on that.

"the Dhorlin will be polluted all year round" I believe that was the case when it came out at Mcrinnians point for years which is closer to the Dhorlin than Killdalloig Bay. Did WC1 voice his objections then? if so I wonder where his objections are recorded?

Jeanette

[John S]

Thanks for your post WC 1 - no need for another question, if the existing "state of the art" treatment plant worked, the third option above would apply.

[John S]

Jeanette,

Whats your point - do you think that previous consultation exercises were not extensive enough to catch all the opinion? if so how do we make sure that doesn't happen this time?

[WC1]

Not sure what Jeanette's point actually is. The site of the old outfall at McCringan's Point was chosen in about 1970/1971 by the then Campbeltown Town Council on the advice of 'experts' it had commissioned to find the best place to put it. Those 'experts' carried out, among other things, a flotation survey which showed that if the discharges took place at McCringan's Point as the tide began to ebb all effluent would be carried out to sea. On that basis I had no objection, as an elected member of the said Town Council, to the outfall being put where it was and from the clear lack of significant pollution for some 30 years it is evident that the advice available back then was pretty good and the decision, for its time, was in my view the right one. Times have moved on of course. Now, or in the very near future, no discharge into the sea is going to be legal under European directives. By the way, in 'modelling' the effect of the discharge at Kildalloig Bay, the 2005 'experts' didn't include the fact that the Dhorlin is covered by only a couple of feet of water at high tide and looked puzzled when this was pointed out to them. In 1970 they didn't have computers of course, so they had to use much simpler methods like actual floats and getting their hands wet.

[John S]

WC-1, one thing that this whole exercise has highlighted is that modelling - either physical with actual experimental results or computer generated with mathematical derivations, needs to be interrogated by local knowledge backed by impartial expert advice.

Perhaps we should be making representations to our new Deputy Finance Minister about how computer modelling for public projects is audited?

[Jeanette]

Jeanette,

Whats your point -

John

I don't have to justify to you anything I post on here.

jeanette

[bubbly jock]

Scottish Water, Sewage, Sewerage, Krap, Now we've got a WC

What next? Armitage Shanks and Portaloo's?

bubbly

[Ship called Dignity]

I find that there are too many personal feelings involved in this subject with regards historical events.

That is the point however, they are history and whether or not a group was formed (to which I agree the name was wrong ) the objectives of KRAP were correct. The proposal to put a new pipeline down Kilkerran was/is not the correct answer.

Now can we stop all the the bickering and move together to sort this problem out - the main point being that a CRAP sewage system was installed in Campbeltown which should WORK!!! That was the promise was it not?

Up for debate!

PS - I think the Poll should have a fourth option - all of the three above?

ON another note should this be moved to the Task Force thread?

[John S]

Hi Davi,

With respect, this is a local issue the whole idea of raising this thread here was to offer the opportunity for all to contribute whether interested in the taskforce activity or not.

[Ship called Dignity]

ON another note should this be moved to the Task Force thread?

Hi Davi,

With respect, this is a local issue the whole idea of raising this thread here was to offer the opportunity for all to contribute whether interested in the taskforce activity or not.

Cheers John - no problems - in many senses that is why I moved the order of the Board about so Local Issues and News is now top - hoping more people will add their thoughts.

As you'll see I have posted the minutes on the Task Force thread as requested.

Cheers

David

[DMS Graphics]

Think there should be a fourth option on the poll: All of the above

Feelings do run high on this topic, but as stated before, we all have to fight for the same solution. Local businesses are in the front line of this problem every time. Suffering financially from lost trade, damaged premises, lost time clearing up, while at the same time paying rates on domestic and business properties for a system that just doesn't work.

Now that John and Les have taken this onboard, we can finally reach a solution. Probably not one that will make everyone happy, major work is needed to fix this, disruption, places dug up, it has to be done. We have to look to what can be done for the greater good of Campbeltown, it may mean a little pain for some, but worth it.

Unfortunately can't make it to the meeting, but will be following events.

Right now let's bang a few heads together in the Town Hall !!