The Kintyre Forum

From last week's Oban Times.

Argyll and Bute Council officials have made a recommendation to councillors to refuse planning permission for a wind farm at Largie Estate, Tayinloan.

The planning application for the wind farm on Largie Estate, Tayinloan goes before Mid Argyll, Kintyre and Islay Area Committee on Wednesday (tomorrow) with a recommendation from Council officials that it be refused permission.

The seven turbines have been subject of massive opposition, with 640 objections being lodged with Argyll and Bute Council. There are so many objections that the councillors have also been advised that it would be appropriate for them to consider whether a discretionary hearing should be held before they make their final decision. At Wednesday’s meeting in Campbeltown Town Hall, the councillors will decide whether or not to hold a hearing or go ahead and make the decision.

Of the 640 objections, 611 relate to the amended scheme now before the council and of these 184 are from Mid Argyll, Kintyre and Islay; 57 from residents elsewhere in Argyll, 318 from other UK addresses and 52 from overseas addresses as far away as Finland and Australia.

Objections from organisations include The Ramblers Association, Kintyre Civic Society and the Argyll Bird Club.

Two individuals and Gigha Renewable Energy Ltd have submitted letters of support for the wind farm which sees Eurus Energy UK Ltd propose seven wind turbines, which measure 110 meters from the ground to blade tip.

Angus Gilmour, head of planning (ABC), has written in his advice to councillors prior to the meeting “My view is that the site is an inappropriate one to be considered for the siting of a wind farm on nature conservation grounds”

More information can be found at the following links

http://www.argyll-bute.gov.uk/moderngov ... &DF=&Ver=4

http://www.argyll-bute.gov.uk/moderngov ... p?ID=24943

http://www.argyll-bute.gov.uk/moderngov ... p?ID=24944

http://www.argyll-bute.gov.uk/moderngov ... p?ID=24945

I note that councillors have decided to have a Discretionary Hearing in light of the dubiety of information presented by the objectors. It was stated that although there are Greenland White Fronted Geese in the vicinity of Tangy windfarm not one mortality has ocurred since it started operating.
Yet again we see people from outwith Argyll trying to influence how the residents of Kintyre should conduct their lives.
Well done to the councillor who stated that he felt they should disregard those computer generated objections from locations such as Slovenia, New Zealand and the US.
SNH once again have shown their total disregard to the economic wellbeing of the Kintyre population by objecting to this development which could bring jobs to the engineering facilities on the Kintyre peninsula.
Residents of Kintyre should lobby Argyll & Bute Planning Dept in support of this windfarm and the economic benefit it will bring

Thanks Cammy for your posting - good to see the Wind Farm debate getting a bit of response at last

Cammy wrote:Residents of Kintyre should lobby Argyll & Bute Planning Dept in support of this windfarm and the economic benefit it will bring

Just for information sake (as you clearly know what you are speaking about - unlike me!) what are the economic benefits of another wind farm in Kintyre?

Purely for information - not a loaded question!

I guess that there could be a possibility of the developer using Vestas turbines hence a benefit to Campbeltown, also these windfarms usually have 2-3 people involved in servicing and upkeep and lastly, but by no means least they tend to set up Community Funds which are managed by the local community for it's benefit.
However best not to assume I know what I'm talking about I've only heard a guy from ALI Energy speak.

Cammy wrote:I guess that there could be a possibility of the developer using Vestas turbines hence a benefit to Campbeltown, also these windfarms usually have 2-3 people involved in servicing and upkeep and lastly, but by no means least they tend to set up Community Funds which are managed by the local community for it's benefit.
However best not to assume I know what I'm talking about I've only heard a guy from ALI Energy speak.

As a past chairman of East Kintyre Community Council involved in the setup of the two windfarms Beinn an Tuirc and Deuchran. Yes, we the community were very pleased with the outcome of the level of funding received from the two power companies. This money being put to good use for projects, assistance and investing for the future when the twenty year contract ceases.
A lot of time and study went into the setup of both windfarms with both East and West Kintyre Community Councils.

But my personal view is it is getting out of hand. I do not wish to see the peninsula of Kintyre getting polluted with lots more windfarms. Tangy has been added and I think enough is enough. We live in a lovely scenic area and we do not want to overdo it.
These are my thoughts to the topic.

It is great to see some support for a change

The amount of blatant scaremongering that goes on about windfarms from the NIMBY's is ridiculous - do people not realise that if climate change continues at it's current rate than we won't have any geese coming here anyway ? check out RSPB's site....

http://www.rspb.org.uk/policy/climatechange/index.asp

Personally I would far rather see Kintyre "polluted" with windfarms than see it polluted with Nuclear waste.
It wasn't so long ago that Machrihanish was looked at as a potential site for storing the stuff- and that scared the hell out of me!

We need energy- there is no getting away from that- and it has to come from somewhere.
Other renewables are still in the early stages and we need to act now- Wind energy is well established technology.

Scotland has one of the best resources for wind in the world- and we should be using it to make Scotland a front runner in renewable energy.

Just for info- the Wind industry employs directly over 200 people in Kinyre- and not only in the factory- the positive effects of the Factory for Campbeltown would be hard to miss.
It is a fact that the strongest support for Windfarms comes from those who live nearest to them- which kind of makes me wonder where these people live... .... ?

Those are fair comments but you also have to weigh into this what JDC said about enough being enough. Kintyre is already home to a lot of wind turbines and so the people living here could hardly be said to be NIMBYs. It isn't necessarily fair for one area to play host to more than its fair share.

As regards efficient use of resources, the British Isles are neither consistently wet enough nor consistently windy enough to most effectively exploit either wind power or hydro-electric systems. A resource we do have in constant abundance is the tide and I think that as the technology develops we'll see a change in direction with more tidal power coming on-line.

agree with beachcomber

vestas is a job creation scheme far better to pay em to do something useful - and lets not forget us taxpayers( there are some other tax payers out there arent there?) grants are ending up in scandinvia. wind turbines are a waste of space - unless of course we all have one in our back garden
the ROI is around 20 years - 20 years before it makes more leccy than it cost to build - Im sure most will fall down after 10

Campbeltown loch would make a great tidal power station on the other hand

Valid comments from you both
It was not my intention to accuse the people of Kintyre of being NIMBY's- far from it- far away like slovenia, New Zealand and the US......
Maybe I should have said- not in some one elses back yard.
As you say Beachcomber, Kintyre already has its share and in general they are well supported by local people.
Objections to windfarms should be based on fact - the point that Kintyre already has three being probably the most valid.

But the other scare tactics and innacuracies used, in the end, will only go against objectors using "dubious" tactics as in the Largie case.
Incidentaly, the energy payback for a modern wind turbine is much less than 20 years - only 6-8 months ! ( BWEA website)
I agree that there should not be a jobs at any cost mentality- I sure wasn't planning to send my CV to the Neuclear waste facility at Machrihanish
But on the tax payers point, Vestas Celtic is actually a UK company employing British people who spend their wages here ( and pay tax)

dedalus wrote:agree with beachcomber

vestas is a job creation scheme far better to pay em to do something useful - and lets not forget us taxpayers( there are some other tax payers out there arent there?) grants are ending up in scandinvia. wind turbines are a waste of space - unless of course we all have one in our back garden
the ROI is around 20 years - 20 years before it makes more leccy than it cost to build - Im sure most will fall down after 10

Campbeltown loch would make a great tidal power station on the other hand

So what are you saying then dedalus that Vestas employees are a waste to tax payer’s money and they are not good at their jobs. The power company’s are that stupid that they buy a product that is not only faulty but will fall down in half the time that you say it will take to pay for them . Got to be one of the most ridiculous posts on this subject yet.

And yes I am a Vestas employee

Tulamben wrote: I agree that there should not be a jobs at any cost mentality- I sure wasn't planning to send my CV to the Neuclear waste facility at Machrihanish
But on the tax payers point, Vestas Celtic is actually a UK company employing British people who spend their wages here ( and pay tax)

I didn't think the proposal to decommission nuclear sub's at Machrihanish went ahead, did it? Personally I'd have had my CV in the first postbag they received.

As to Vestas Celtic being a UK company: "Vestas Celtic Wind Technology Ltd is a wholly owned subsidiary of Vestas Wind Systems A/S with headquarters in Denmark." That rather suggests it is actually a Danish company.

Find this debate quite fascinating but can't believe it has now developed into a debate on Vestas and their prescence in Kintyre.

Surely any company that has created so many jobs in the Kintyre area has to be welcome, even if it did cost taxpayers money in grants to entice the company here in the first place. These grants would be part of a budget allocated nationally for attracting outside investment into Scotland as a whole and not Kintyre specifically. So is it not better that the grant is allocated to creating employment in Kintyre rather than being used somewhere else or not at all.

And as for the comment about return on investment being 20 years but the wind turbines falling down after 10 years I agree with Scotty this has got to be one of the daftest things I have ever read in my life. Also, dedalus, can you explain exactly how taxpayers grants are ending up in Scandanavia. The money allocated for the setting up of the Vestas Celtic Wind Technology company are used for that purpose alone and cannot be redistributed to other parts of the Vestas group. And btw I am not an employee of Vestas, but am someone who does know a wee bit about finance and grant allocation.

Beachcomber, dont want to be pedantic but Vestas Celtic Wind Technology is a UK company. It is registered at Companies House in the UK so therefore is a UK company irrespective of where its ultimate shareholder is based. Also it will be liable to UK corporation tax on any profits that it makes.

dedalus wrote:Campbeltown loch would make a great tidal power station on the other hand

I'd like to hear an explanation for this statement! Apparently around 20 sites in the world have been identified as possible tidal power stations and of those mentioned in Britain (Severn, Dee, Solway and Humber) they all seem more open than Campbeltown Loch! I'm not an expert on this, but while the tide flowing in/out of the loch could potentially produce some electricity, I imagine in this instance it would only be a small amount and not cost effective! However, I do agree that tidal power needs to be seriously looked at and, while I'm not against the wind farms, there has to be a limit to the number of windmills in a relatively small area!

Ajax .......Bless ........you seem a stranger to "intercompany charges" and other acceptable ways of "moving" profits around the globe. I thought you said you knew a thing or 2?

Scotty ...I made no such alegations about Vestas employees - only the system that sees thier jobs heavily subsidised.

Sorry if you guys are too cerebrally challanged to work out the contradiction in your statements

Fact - wind turbines are heavily government subsidised someone else can go look up the figure

If the pay back was really <1 year they must be making incredible profits - so why are they subsidised?

so either you should be anoyed that your taxes are being wasted OR that they are great white elephants that dont actually pay thier way - cmon choose you cant have both.

p.s. It is very likely that they will be bought over by a giant energy company (SHSHSHSHSH shell but dont tell anyone.... buy your vestas shares now) where do you think the return on the sale will end up ?( give you clue - famous for pornography and .........errrrrr.......bacon) this is after all the ultimate realisation of the trading accumulation and worth of a company. The net worth of the UK will have gone down when such a sale occurrs - and all for a few jobs that - apparently cant exist in a "free" market.

Excuse my tone. I get a bit angry when the issue of government hand outs is concerned but I feel the whole country is hooked on it. I actually prefer Vestas jobs to paying someone to sit on thier ass( or government work as its better known). But it will not last ... remember IBM, Motorolla, Wang, etc,etc . Artifical inward investment will allways fail .. eventually.
I have the misfortune of being one of the few net taxpayers( I only pay in I dont recieve) left in this crap country. If you add it up there are only about 15% of us in this bracket - paying for every other bugger. We should get more say in running the country in my opinion. As well as getting to the front of the queue at Tescos and the post office oh and NHS hospitals should treat tax payers and thier families first - anything else would be "killing the golden goose" - well we are paying for everything and the sooner we get back to work the better for everyone.

Rant over ....carry on.

dedalus wrote:Ajax .......Bless ........you seem a stranger to "intercompany charges" and other acceptable ways of "moving" profits around the globe. I thought you said you knew a thing or 2?

S

Ah bless you dedalus too. Now we are talking about a capital grant here specifically. I move intercompany charges and profits round Europe every month, so please can you tell me how a capital grant can be moved around the world, would be very interested to know.

In previous jobs received many capital grants for companies but not once did I ever receive a capital grant which was pure profit, not unless the system of grants in Scotland has changed and they are throwing money away. So please explain further. As far as I was aware the initial grant Vestas received was for over 9 million pounds for the purchase of assets in particular the maufacture of the buildings - in this case they would have to actually prove that the assets that the grant was given for were actually purchased, the conditions pertaining to the grant were actually met etc. Subsequent grants were received towards the purchase of new equipment and towards the creation of new jobs where again strict conditions were to be met.

Re intercompany charges, you are aware that you cannot create an intercompany charge willy nilly, you do know that intercompany charges have to be agreed between the tax authorities and that the intercompany charge can be justified. Especially where the transfer is to a country where the corporate tax charge is lower.

Hey but I dont know a thing or 2, so I await your reply with great interest.