INDEPENDENCE

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Re: INDEPENDENCE

Postby baz » Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:05 pm

@lochend

I see you have dropped the issue of fracking.
And the easy removal of devolved "powers".

lochend wrote:Jim Sillars threatening a day of reckoning with the banks and the nationalisation of BP.


Good.
It is long overdue.
Westminsters response to the 2008 banking crisis,
has been what exactly?
Apart from burdening the taxpayer with debt. :roll:

lochend wrote:"The head of the civil service Sir Jeremy Heywood has said there was no breach of the Ministerial Code in relation to BBC reporting of RBS’s headquarters moving to England."


What else would you expect him to say?

But sticking with matters concerning the BBC,
how about this for bias, or indeed, an outright lie.



The BBC report :roll:
And what actualy happened ...

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Re: INDEPENDENCE

Postby lochend » Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:39 pm

On Sir Jeremy Heywood Baz posted "What else would you expect him to say?" Err..I don't think the head of the Civil Service would risk a lie do you, or do you think all people in Westminster are dishonest charlatans and all in Edinburgh are whiter than white? Baz you obviously are very committed to your cause and I have no doubt of you passion on the subject but such blind belief that there can be no grounds for any doubt might make people shy away from the perception that we are dealing with a zealot!
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Re: INDEPENDENCE

Postby baz » Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:36 pm

lochend wrote:I don't think the head of the Civil Service would risk a lie do you ....


It will not be for you, nor I, to determine the right or wrong of the matter.

Hairs will be split, and rationales given.
But the sound bites are out there, and used with intent.
Is Heywood taking one for the team?
The moment will be lost to the bigger picture.
The truth will out, but not before the 18th.
Job done.

Lochy, would you care to comment on the lies
and manipulation by the BBC?
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Re: INDEPENDENCE

Postby lochend » Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:29 pm

Baz,I have no truck with the BBC but if there are lies and manipulation these are par for the course with that organisation.What I cannot believe is that you do not have the slightest doubt in your mind that there are no very serious risks in the steps you wish to make. You have said that politicians and banks have positions to protect but that cannot be levelled at the chief economist at Deutsche Bank.David Folkers-Landau earns a living giving financial advice to his clients,mostly very important companies and his advice would have to be independent, giving a balanced view,if not he would be out of a job.Do you still not entertain even the slightet misgivings when he delivers the following which is just a small extract from a lengthy but damning prediction of what could happen if the Yes vote have their way. ""A Yes vote for Scottish independence on Thursday would go down in history as a political and economic mistake as large as Winston Churchill's decision in 1925 to return the pound to the Gold Standard or the failure of the Federal Reserve to provide sufficient liquidity to the US banking system, which we now know brought on the Great Depression in the US."
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Re: INDEPENDENCE

Postby baz » Sun Sep 14, 2014 9:11 am

lochend wrote:The BBC ... if there are lies and manipulation these are par for the course with that organisation.


Lochy, there is no "if" about it. :roll:
The BBC is the propaganda wing of The Crown.

lochend wrote:Politicians and banks have positions to protect but that cannot be levelled at the chief economist at Deutsche Bank.

Let us look beyond one man, at one bank.
Consider the position of the IMF.

The International Monetary Fund said on Thursday that a vote by citizens of Scotland for independence could raise many questions and upset markets in the short term.

A vote in next week's referendum to break from the United Kingdom "will raise a number of important and complicated issues that will have to be negotiated," said IMF spokesman Bill Murray.

"The main immediate effect is likely to be uncertainty over the transition to a potentially new and different monetary, financial and fiscal framework in Scotland," he said.

"While this uncertainty could lead to negative market reactions in the short term, the longer term will depend on the decisions being made during the transition, and I do not want to speculate on this."
link

As I have always maintained, there will be a period of re-adjustment.
The other side of which, Scotland as a resource rich country, will be in a stronger position.
Countries which have natural natural resources are wealthy, and resilient.

lochend wrote:David Folkers-Landau earns a living giving financial advice to his clients,mostly very important companies and his advice would have to be independent, giving a balanced view,if not he would be out of a job.


He works for a bank, he is not independent. :lol:

In contrast, look at the position of Aberdeen Asset Management,
globally the third largest independent investment company.

An independent Scotland would be a big success, according to the head of the country's largest asset manager.

Martin Gilbert, chief executive of Aberdeen Asset Management, said Scotland could prosper regardless of the outcome of the referendum next week.

Gilbert said the Scottish government's preferred option of a formal currency union between an independent Scotland and the rest of the UK would be "highly likely", despite it being repeatedly ruled out by the three main pro-union parties.

Scotland could also benefit by refusing to take on its share of the UK national debt if denied a currency union, he added.

He told the Press and Journal newspaper: "I think an independent Scotland would be a big success."

He added: "Most sensible people now accept that Scotland would be prosperous with either outcome in the current constitutional debate.

"A sterling union would be both desirable and highly likely whatever is said in London now. Sterlingisation, that is keeping the pound come what may, would be a pretty good option.

"Low or no debt would be the position if an independent Scotland were denied access to Bank of England financial assets, and that would leave the newly independent country in both budget and balance of payments surplus – not a bad start."



Or perhaps, since you like bankers

Sir Angus Grossart, chairman of Noble Grossart merchant bank, who suggested in the Financial Times that
the impact of the referendum on the markets had been "severely overstated".



Or even, an economist

Prof John Kay, from the London School of Economics

"Scotland is one of the wealthiest nations in the world, richer per head than France, Japan and the UK, and with the powers of independence we will use that wealth to ensure all of Scotland will thrive," he said.



lochend wrote:David Folkers-Landau .... economic mistake as large as Winston Churchill's decision in 1925 to return the pound to the Gold Standard or the failure of the Federal Reserve to provide sufficient liquidity to the US banking system, which we now know brought on the Great Depression in the US."


Ah, where to begin ....
This is a bankers comment, in support of the banking establishment.
Currency backed by thin air, as opposed to a real tangible asset, such as gold or oil.
But he is correct, it was the banking system, the Federal Reserve Bank,
which brought on the Great Depression in the US.
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Re: INDEPENDENCE

Postby lochend » Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:18 pm

The point being that the German banker is not a Scot nor is he employed by a Scottish company therefore no personal prejudice or company loyalty.You have not answered the question,do you not have even the slightest doubt that you could be overconfident that independence does not involve a huge risk .
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Re: INDEPENDENCE

Postby baz » Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:00 pm

lochend wrote:The point being that the German banker is not a Scot nor is he employed by a Scottish company therefore no personal prejudice or company loyalty.

The point is, the German banker is not independent as you claim.
Nationality has no bearing on the matter.
Nor does the company he works for.
Your assertion clearly defines presumptive fallacy. :roll:

lochend wrote:You have not answered the question,do you not have even the slightest doubt that you could be overconfident that independence does not involve a huge risk .

Nope, simply confident. :D
I have researched with due diligence, and feel it is incumbant upon me
to answer and dismiss the rhetoric of the nay-sayers and fear-mongers.

Keep it up, lochy.
You really aren't helping your cause. :wink:
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Re: INDEPENDENCE

Postby lochend » Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:16 pm

"Nope, simply confident. I have researched with due diligence, and feel it is incumbant upon me
to answer and dismiss the rhetoric of the nay-sayers and fear-mongers.Keep it up, lochy.
You really aren't helping your cause." Bazzy do you honestly feel the lofty,dismissive ,even arrogant tone you adopt is going to sway voters.? BTW I do not have a cause,I just have severe misgivings that people like you are being swept along in a tsunami of chutzpah and bravado and cannot believe that you cannot harbour even the slightest doubt.Seems very reckless to me! :roll: :roll:
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Re: INDEPENDENCE

Postby baz » Sun Sep 14, 2014 9:50 pm

@lochy

As usual, resorting to ad hominem nonsense.
Attacking the man, not the message.

Being confident, is lofty.
Being persuasive, is dismissive.
Being assured, is arrogant.
Apparently.

I have countered and answered all the points you have raised.
My intent is to inform. Voters will choose as they will.
Sadly though, you have shown your arguements to be of no substance,
and seem to favour the tactic of hit and run.

Do you have any misgivings of people who promote the Union?
Or is this a one-sided concern.
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Re: INDEPENDENCE

Postby russanros » Sun Sep 14, 2014 10:23 pm

Delighted to see the rallies in Glasgow & Inverness yesterday plus the march on BBC Scotland today!

Happy to wait for result but I think THURSDAY will be good for Scotland - hopefully the lid will be blown on westminsters corrupt antics by then ! :P :wink:
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Re: INDEPENDENCE

Postby baz » Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:44 am

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Re: INDEPENDENCE

Postby LANDROVER ROGER » Mon Sep 15, 2014 11:12 am

Just be careful what you wish for.
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Re: INDEPENDENCE

Postby baz » Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:24 pm

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Re: INDEPENDENCE

Postby lochend » Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:32 pm

Baz,You just don't get it do you? Being confident, is lofty.Being persuasive, is dismissive.
Being assured, is arrogant.Apparently." Being assured that you are being persuasive is arrogant. You certainly have not persuaded me!
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Re: INDEPENDENCE

Postby baz » Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:52 am

lochend wrote:You certainly have not persuaded me!


Independence is not about you, lochy.
Its not about winning you over.
It is about winning the debate.

You have failed to present any reasoned arguement in support of the Union.
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